Chipping a C220CDi - worth it?

[420SE]

Following on from the last thread, we ar enow in posession of a W202 C220CDi and we love it Thanks to all those who helped out!

Just been doing some Googling and general research and was wondering as to what the consensu was on the issue of chipping a W202 C220CDi?

My understanding is that diesels can benefit from a chip.

However, are the following tru or myths:

1. Chipping will result in more torque and bhp

2. Chipping will result in better MPG both in the city and on the m'ways (...can you really get more power with better economy?)

3. Who has a good reputation when it comes to diesel chips and what are the likley costs involved?

 

[camerafodder]

Go for a remap for better results.

 

[420SE]

Hello! I should add that I am mixing chipping with a remap, having done further reading...remap is what the doc ordered it seems.

Just read a couple of threads here and looked at a company called DMS Automotive who remapped a C class (petrol I think), and apparently the results weren't that great ie. +5bhp +10 lbs/ft torque etc.

There's also Bluefin who do remaps...

Anybody here remapped a C220CDi W202?

 

[camerafodder]

I should add that I am mixing chipping with a remap, having done further reading...

What do you mean?

 

[420SE]

What do you mean?

I meant that I assumed that they are the same thing, when clearly they aren't and I am being a numpty

Remap is what I meant, but thought a chip is the same! Clearly it isn't and I should know better!

 

[camerafodder]

A remap is more tailored to the application and generally gives better results. A chip tends to be an all prurpose plug-in box, some are OK some are very bad. I had mine done by Celtic Tuning and I'm very pleased with the results

 

[GlynC]

Had my C200 done
well worth the cash
totally different to drive much more responsive and fuel economy actually better :bannana:

 

[BTB 500]

I would check the impact on your insurance (assuming you're going to declare it).

 

[Aoraki]

I would check the impact on your insurance (assuming you're going to declare it).

£25 pa when I had it on the W204, not bad at all. Easiest thing to do though is go on a comparison web site and and do a couple of quotes, one with chip, one without...............simples!

 

[MrMotul]

I bought a Chip for my E220 CDI off ebay from a company called chiptuning.de I think. It worked out at about £95 including postage, took all of 10 minutes to connect and 5 minutes of that was removing the engine cover! anyway, it works a treat, immediate performance improvement and better fuel economy, before I was getting around high 30smpg to mid 40s on a run and since the chip, it very rarely drops below 40s and on one run to Manchester and back it achieved over 60mpg, well at least thats what the on board computer said.

Had it on my car for maybe 8 months or so and overall well worth the £95 and so far, not one hiccup,

Hope this helps,

Regards,

Terry.

 

[HR17]

I bought a Chip for my E220 CDI off ebay from a company called chiptuning.de I think. It worked out at about £95 including postage, took all of 10 minutes to connect and 5 minutes of that was removing the engine cover! anyway, it works a treat, immediate performance improvement and better fuel economy, before I was getting around high 30smpg to mid 40s on a run and since the chip, it very rarely drops below 40s and on one run to Manchester and back it achieved over 60mpg, well at least thats what the on board computer said.
.

I've seen these - was it the Green economy type or the Power type - what increase in BHP/torque did they quote? Also, did you tell your insurers, and if so what did they charge extra?

 

[MrMotul]

The one I bought was just a black box with a couple of male/female connectors which plugged in on the end of the common rail and the other into the original connector. I think they quoted increase from 143hp to 174hp and something like 315nm torque to 375nm torque, now I dont know if the statistics quoted is what you are actually getting, but as I said, for £95 delivered, I am well pleased and havent got a bad word to say about it. I havent notified my insurance company, I have a traders policy and have never had a claim in 32 years and dont expect to ever claim from it, its a sought of unwritten rule, although someone on here has mentioned that it may not be that expensive to tell the insurance company about adding a chip so I may just ask my insurance man and see what he says.

chiptuning-von-crd-tuning is the company and I have no affiliation with them, but I have bought two chips, one of which wasnt working properly, so they kindly sent me another without any fuss and I returned the duff one back to them, oh and you get a pack of Haribos in the box as well

Basically, this is a cheap option to the other expensive options of boosting your turbo diesel car and like I said, no qualms with the product whatsoever in the 8 months that it has been fitted to my car,

Hope this helps,

Terry.

 

[Diesel Benz]

I bought a Chip for my E220 CDI off ebay from a company called chiptuning.de I think. It worked out at about £95 including postage, took all of 10 minutes to connect and 5 minutes of that was removing the engine cover! anyway, it works a treat, immediate performance improvement and better fuel economy, before I was getting around high 30smpg to mid 40s on a run and since the chip, it very rarely drops below 40s and on one run to Manchester and back it achieved over 60mpg, well at least thats what the on board computer said.

Had it on my car for maybe 8 months or so and overall well worth the £95 and so far, not one hiccup,

Hope this helps,

Regards,

Terry.

This device fools the rail pressure sensor reading. ECU believes the pressure is lower than it actually is. The amount of fuel injected will be higher "per drive pulse microsecond" than the fuel consumption meter assumes. You get lower cluster readings but that does not help a lot if the meter at the pump has not been "calibrated" equally.

Certain fuel efficiency gains are possible when emissions are compromised (not necessarily those that affect MOT). One should not expect a lot though and while using the increased power, fuel consumption would certainly increase.

I would never use these cheap tuning options where the engine ECU is not aware of what is actually ongoing a the engine. A proper chip tuning where the ECU program is modified is a lot safer and also allows a lot more control over the engine.

 

[wemorgan]

Can someone explain how a chip or remap can improve the full efficiency when driving at constant speed?

I thought that such things only worked well whilst accelerating. With increased torque you could drive in a higher gear than normal, therefore improving efficiency. But once in top gear (lock out for autos) there was no difference than without tuning.

Or have I got this all wrong?

 

[Aoraki]

Can someone explain how a chip or remap can improve the full efficiency when driving at constant speed?

I thought that such things only worked well whilst accelerating. With increased torque you could drive in a higher gear than normal, therefore improving efficiency. But once in top gear (lock out for autos) there was no difference than without tuning.

Or have I got this all wrong?

I "think" this may be the answer: Driving along at a constant speed, you would be using "X%" of throttle and therefore "X" amount of fuel. If your engine had more torque, you would presumely be using slighty less "Y%" of throttle and therefore only "Y" amount of fuel.
If I'm totaly wrong (as does happen at times!) I'm sure someone will be along with the correct explination.

 

[420SE]

Interesting responses so far, keep them coming!

 

[wemorgan]

I "think" this may be the answer: Driving along at a constant speed, you would be using "X%" of throttle and therefore "X" amount of fuel. If your engine had more torque, you would presumely be using slighty less "Y%" of throttle and therefore only "Y" amount of fuel.
If I'm totaly wrong (as does happen at times!) I'm sure someone will be along with the correct explination.

Maybe I'm just getting lost in the Physics, but the force and therefore energy required to hold a mass at fixed velocity is constant and not related to the car's max power/energy output. Therefore even if your car has more power and torque, it will still use the same amount as before.

Like you I'm happy to be proved wrong on this.

 

[HumberMart]

Not so simple

Maybe I'm just getting lost in the Physics, but the force and therefore energy required to hold a mass at fixed velocity is constant and not related to the car's max power/energy output. Therefore even if your car has more power and torque, it will still use the same amount as before.

Like you I'm happy to be proved wrong on this.

It's much more complex than that.

In most real world situations, the car is having to respond constantly to changing gradients (however slight), changing wind speed, changing rolling resistance etc. thus it is in effect accelerating and decelerating all the time to maintain a constant speed. You can observe this effect a bit if you set the cruise and watch a real time mpg display.

A remaped engine will be set to be more powerful and efficient throghout the rev range, not just the small power band needed to get ultra low CO2 figures and Combined Cycle mpg for the manufacturers headline figures.

So when the minor correction is needed to climb back from 69.8 to 70.0 mph, it uses less fuel than before due to more efficient combustion.

Also the power to weight ratio of the vehicle is impoved by a significant margin. Think how much manufacturers play on weight saving these days to improve economy.

 

[Mactech]

Can someone explain how a chip or remap can improve the full efficiency when driving at constant speed?

I thought that such things only worked well whilst accelerating. With increased torque you could drive in a higher gear than normal, therefore improving efficiency. But once in top gear (lock out for autos) there was no difference than without tuning.

Or have I got this all wrong?

One of the most common things that 'chip tuning' does is increase the fuel rail pressure. In broad terms the greater the pressure, the more atomised the fuel injected, which can lead to better efficiency in steady state conditions. The exact timing of the squirt can also change the way in which the fuel burns.
As has been already stated, this can squew fuel meter readings and to get the very best results you need a better, more precise injector like the ones on the new Blue Efficiency engines....but last longer than a few thousnd miles.
If you already drive in a fuel efficient manner it won't help a great deal, but if you contine to drive as most do, then the additional torque means you are on the gas for a shorter time, use less rpm and achieve a saving that way. There is much more to be gained by training the 'operator' than in the equipment

 

[Diesel Benz]

It's much more complex than that.

In most real world situations, the car is having to respond constantly to changing gradients (however slight), changing wind speed, changing rolling resistance etc. thus it is in effect accelerating and decelerating all the time to maintain a constant speed. You can observe this effect a bit if you set the cruise and watch a real time mpg display.

A remaped engine will be set to be more powerful and efficient throghout the rev range, not just the small power band needed to get ultra low CO2 figures and Combined Cycle mpg for the manufacturers headline figures.

So when the minor correction is needed to climb back from 69.8 to 70.0 mph, it uses less fuel than before due to more efficient combustion.

Also the power to weight ratio of the vehicle is impoved by a significant margin. Think how much manufacturers play on weight saving these days to improve economy.

I do agree that this is more complex than that (almost irrespectively what "that" is ).

But I did not follow certain points above. Like the power to weight ratio is improved for max power and the engine would not be used at anything close to max power or even max torque at those minor speed corrections.

The key has to be more efficient combustion. I cannot see fuel efficiency increase if combustion efficiency is not improved. But the question is how combustion efficiency can be improved from the factory settings.

I'm not engine expert but I believe the key is to optimise the combustion process towards efficiency and compromise emissions. The free parameters are fuel injection timing (assuming no variable valve timing) and the amount of air (on a diesel more air than needed to burn the fuel can be used). What ever the details are, the only option is to compromise emissions (or perhaps engine longevity too), otherwise the factory would have used the same settings to reach better figures.

The maximum power and torque are a bit different thing but emissions are a key there too, engine longevity compromise starts to be another key.