CL500 m113 engine ticking from top of engine

[philnewmerc]

Hello all

I've been away from Mercs for a while (Alfas) but now want an old luxo barge for a bit. Been to look at a CL500, sounded lovely and was v tempted but 3 things put me off and i wondered what the wisdom was on these from the experts:
1 Noticable ticking noise from top of engine. Definitely not cam chain as dead quiet on start up, but i wonder if its a hydraulic lifter/tappet gone bad? If so is that expensive job? Amy snake oil cures??
2 No service history for past 35k miles... Related to 1 ?
3 Weirdly the leather surface is peeling, i.e. there's a very thin top coat coming away like dandruff! Is this normal? Has the leather been painted like people paint leather shoes???
Advice on the hydraulic tappet/lifter would be much appreciated. Cheers, phil

 

[Will]

What year/model CL are we talking - 140, 215 or 216?

Could be one of three different engines

 

[philnewmerc]

Hi. 2004 model which i believe is m113. No smoke, no clatter, just a very noticeable tick tick ticking. Not that loud, but unignoreable! I'm on a shoestring budget (yeah i know "buy a Nissan etc" no, I won't lol) so i was thinking thinner oil eg 5w30 rather than 40 or some snake oil eg Wynns etc....... Any ither ideas??? Thanks

 

[Will]

M113s are usually pretty much bombproof and should be quiet.

If the engine has been neglected that badly, I would steer clear of that particular car unless you have a really good reason?

The 215 CL is quite an expensive proposition (ABC suspension, electronics etc) so would look for one that you won’t be inheriting too many neglected issues with - no service history plus engine issues doesn’t sound good.

 

[Dickster]

Mmm, a certain amount of ticking is normal. My SL55 does it, perhaps injector noise? Thats what I put mine down to..

and come to think of it, all videos I’ve seen of the same engine have the same noise

 

[Accused]

Mine has a tick but I wouldn't say loud, pretty much not present with the bonnet shut.
There is a lot of CL 500's out there even at low prices so I'd look at a few. 35k with no oil change is a possibility then and not good.
They are old and no matter how well looked after being so complicated there's going to be considerable ongoing costs.
I paid top money in February for my late 2005 with excellent history...its already played up more than I ever imagined.
That said, they can be a wonderful car to drive and stare at!

 

[Dickster]

I agree re: barely any noise with the bonnet closed. Check the oil colour, with regular changes it should not be dark.

 

[Will]

There’s quite a difference between normal injector tick (pretty light) and mechanical engine type noise? Most cars you can hear the injectors pulsing, same as the solenoids for the evap system etc.

It’s hard to diagnose from just a few words on the internet but a neglected 215 CL (no history for 35k miles) is not a great proposition IMHO, plenty of these cars out there - so I’d still exercise caution unless the OP has real reason to want this particular example?

 

[Accused]

I don't know the OP location but if you are nearby you are welcome to come and listen to mine
I did have a tick which turned out to be the AC compressor incidentally
North Kent

 

[philnewmerc]

Thank you to everyone for your kind advice. I wish I had taken a video so you could listen. I'm not a mechanic but as an engineer I would say it has the sound of a solenoid clicking on and off (I'm not saying that's what I think it is it's just the characteristic sound) e g. in a pneumatic system. But the clicking is not fast enough to be coming from every injector or every valve. To me it sounds like it's coming from one thing in or on the engine. It increases and falls with the engine speed too. It's only noticeable with the bonnet up and on the right hand side of the engine looking from the front. It was the same sound from cold and exactly the same half an hour later when the engine was warm. I had a Fiat 500 with a ticking to which I assumed to be a hydraulic tappet and sure enough I filled it full of wynns best snake oil and it went away. The engine certainly sounded mechanically quiet no startup chain rattle, no smoke, pulled well and the reason I like this particular car is because it's very cheap and has a sunroof and nice colour, i.e. not another bloody silver one . ( what kind of early naughties wealthy tight **** ordered an expensive car in the same colour as literally every other person alive and without a sunroof? Why didn't they think of me 15 years later trying to find my perfect cheap luxo barge! ). One thing that might be important is that the car has not been started for several weeks. And would only start with a booster battery. Perhaps this is drained one lifter that is struggling to fill up?

This video is interesting, although it's a BMW, the chap reckons bmw techs say you can fix hydraulic tappet noise by holding the revs at 3000 RPM for 2 minutes. "To bleed them out". Before and after is that 2 minutes and then 6 minutes 30.

This video (noise is at 1.20 min) of a Mercedes V8 claims it is lifter noise. This sounds more like a knocking to me. The car I looked at had more of a tick tick


This video doesn't have the noise but it does detail the the valve oil tube repair option. I don't really know much about this and since these tubes look quite wide bore I'm not sure how on Earth they would get blocked before anything else... Is this a likely cause?

 

[Accused]

4k will definitely find you a better example.
The bmw thing is peculiar to mainly the n52 engine and the 3000rpm thing is only a temporary fix.
Mines got some issues but far far better and I'd only expect 5k max.
Oh and the right side points to the ABC pump or AC compressor which can both sound like a loud tick if they have issues.

 

[W1ghty]

Can you take the car to an MB specialist pre purchase ?

 

[renault12ts]

Mine has a tick but I wouldn't say loud, pretty much not present with the bonnet shut.
There is a lot of CL 500's out there even at low prices so I'd look at a few. 35k with no oil change is a possibility then and not good.
They are old and no matter how well looked after being so complicated there's going to be considerable ongoing costs.
I paid top money in February for my late 2005 with excellent history...its already played up more than I ever imagined.
That said, they can be a wonderful car to drive and stare at!

On the other hand, I've had mine 5 years now and the biggest bill was about £200. So, they're not all bad.

 

[Bellow]

Advice on the hydraulic tappet/lifter would be much appreciated. Cheers, phil

On another (American - home of the hydraulic tappet) forum I read of a hydraulic tappet being described as an 'oil filter'. Large hole in, small (bleed) hole out. Ideal for trapping the carbon from oil that hasn't been changed often enough.

 

[philnewmerc]

Apologies, I should correctly say it is a CLK500 v8 i looked at, not CL. I like the CL too though. Does the CLK have the abc pump? Would that ticking fall and rise with engine spéed?

From reading the entire internet on the subject, and going half mad in the process, I'm pretty sure it's one of two things. Either the hydraulic tappet (lifter as the Americans call it) which is not filling with oil pressure properly which may or may not be cured with snake oil needs to be replaced. Or, it's the oil tube that feeds the tappet/lifter which are apparently made of plastic on this model and can pop off or break. Unfortunately this requires the valve cover removing and replacement. It is a possible DIY job but I think I would prefer to let an expert do it. I'm going to guesstimate this would be a a £500 job??. Is that still worth it? Could have done any more damage?

Thanks all

 

[Accused]

Unless it was very cheap for the year and condition a car with no history for 35k that wouldn't start without a jump and had a noisy engine wouldn't be my first choice

 

[Will]

CLK and CL are totally different cars, no ABC suspension on the CLK.

The M113 doesn’t really suffer from tappet problems, certainly not to my knowledge nor do you hear much about that sort of issue regularly. I guess it’s possible if it’s not had an oil change for 35k miles but then I wouldn’t look to buy a car like that myself.

£500 doesn’t really go that far in terms of engine repair either (hourly rate plus parts for a specialist)

It sounds like a gamble to me. Maybe it just needs an oil change, or maybe there’s bigger problems than you envisage?

A spare M113 5.0 engine wouldn’t be that expensive if required (few hundred £££ on eBay), just budget for fitting etc. Is that how you want to start the ownership though?

Btw - the oil tube thing you read about doesn’t apply to this model, that’s the earlier M119 V8 not the M113.

I’d gently advise against this car, but good luck whatever you decide

 

[Bellow]

If I've identified the engine correctly as M113 as per here >>

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Then changing hyd tappets doesn't look like it's a big deal. There doesn't seem to be any requirement to disturb the cams and therefore their timing (where the costs ramp up significantly).
The worry though, would be what other damage/wear is there if (and it's only an if) oil changes have been neglected? Without watching all of the video, I ascertained that wear at the rocker bushes messes with the oil flow to the hyd tappets my point being that other wear can intrude or, possibly it is that that is already causing the noise - either by starving a hyd tappet of oil or creating its own noise.
That it seems to be just one valve does point to just one defective hyd tappet - but this is pure guess work.

 

[philnewmerc]

Btw - the oil tube thing you read about doesn’t apply to this model, that’s the earlier M119 V8 not the M113.

I’d gently advise against this car, but good luck whatever you decide

Good news about the oil tube things then. So in answer to why this one: not many on the market under 6k my budget, not silver, has sunroof, not much rust, full serv history to 65k but nothing else till 100k... Could be no service could be not stamped. Main question is will a service or snake all make ticking go away and if not how much to fix or can it be safely left?? I'm gonna guess one hydraulic tappet won't break the bank but i could be wrong. The other clk500 in budget has had its suspension messed with by the owner so that would have to be declared to the insurance and that puts me off, and it has a clicking heater, plus its an elegance and looks too high up (20mm lower avantgarde looks much cooler somehow for such a small change). So yeah, thanks for the advice and you're all right, i am daft so i should keep some cash in reserve for bills

 

[Will]

With a budget of £6k you should easily be able to source a nice example without such issues.

The later cars don’t rust as bad either, and have better electronics etc.

Patience will pay dividends here. Have you considered a CLK55? Slightly more money but probably better choice - although I doubt you’d find a facelift model for that budget,

Good luck