Comand APS strange problem

[pascal]

I recently upgraded my A-class W169 with a Comand APS .

After I installed it, it worked, although I had to drive about half a km on the first time before it displays my position.

Now, the altitude and the number of satellites received still work but not the position (which remains always to the same value when the I'm driving)

The number of satellites received (from 7 to 9) and the altitude are correct (I've compared the altitude value with a portable GSP ans it looks accurate), so I suppose GPS signal reception works.

I also tried to do a reset of the Comand (5+3+7 keys)

This didn't solve the problem.


Any ideas ....

 

[Alfie]

I recently upgraded my A-class W169 with a Comand APS .

After I installed it, it worked, although I had to drive about half a km on the first time before it displays my position.

Now, the altitude and the number of satellites received still work but not the position (which remains always to the same value when the I'm driving)

The number of satellites received (from 7 to 9) and the altitude are correct (I've compared the altitude value with a portable GSP ans it looks accurate), so I suppose GPS signal reception works.

I also tried to do a reset of the Comand (5+3+7 keys)

This didn't solve the problem.


Any ideas ....

Take the car to your local dealer and ask them to update the firmware on the comand. They can also enable the cluster display at the same time.

What part number was/is your comand? It should be A169 820 51 89

 

[richard]

Pascal, the A class has SCN coded cluster, coded from what the factory think is fitted to the car. You therefore have to have MB dealer have the FDOK system at MB updated to say it no longer has audio-5 (option 520?) and now has COMAND (option 527). Once that is done (takes a few days unless dealer has edit access to FDOK, some German dealers do), then take the car and have the cluster recoded (which wil enable the NAV display) and the flash updated done for the COMAND-APS.

BUT, before that, I suggest you just pull the fuse for COMAND, wait half an hour and put it back again

Cheers
Richard

 

[pascal]

Part number of my Comand is : A 169 820 98 89

As Richard suggested, I tried to disconnect the Comand for more than half an hour and then reconnect it.

Then, I've been driving about 10 km

The problem still remains the same : position is not working (although altitude and number of satellites received do and values change normaly when I'm driving).

After reset, it takes some time (1-2 mn) before satellite reception and altitude appear (It looks like it discovers the satellites which seems to be normal)


I also tried to do a reset of the Comand (5+3+7 keys)


I plan to go to my dealer for Cluster coding but I wanted to have the Comand work before (maybe it 's not possible)

What is strange is that it did work once.


Do you think the problem might be a firmware issue ?

 

[pascal]

Another detail I noticed .

When driving, after about 30 minutes, the Comand stops (with a message saying that the engine must be started)

It looks like the comand doesn't kown it's connected on the car.

I think all this confirms I have to go to my dealer for cluster coding and firmware update ...

Part number of my Comand is : A 169 820 98 89

As Richard suggested, I tried to disconnect the Comand for more than half an hour and then reconnect it.

Then, I've been driving about 10 km

The problem still remains the same : position is not working (although altitude and number of satellites received do and values change normaly when I'm driving).

After reset, it takes some time (1-2 mn) before satellite reception and altitude appear (It looks like it discovers the satellites which seems to be normal)


I also tried to do a reset of the Comand (5+3+7 keys)


I plan to go to my dealer for Cluster coding but I wanted to have the Comand work before (maybe it 's not possible)

What is strange is that it did work once.


Do you think the problem might be a firmware issue ?

 

[richard]

I think the problem may be CANbus. Its the bus that the engine on signal comes over. I doubt your issue is firmware, the firmware update only made it work better, and cluster coding purely controls the cluster. It maybe that the EIS / CGW needs telling there is a nav system, but I dont think that would cause what you are seeing.

Does the COMAND change from day to night mode when car lights are turned on ? If the answer is no, then its highly likely to be can-bus (make sure the COMAND-APS is set so it switches lighting modes though, rather than being forced to use day or night mode all the time)

As you upgraded from an Audio-5 the converter loom has a wire that needs to be plugged into the canbus distributor in driver/passenger footwell (I think its fixed to the kick panel), the right distributor can be found because it has loads of identical connectors to the one on the converter loom plugged into it. Theres a magic way of unlocking connector so new ones can be plugged in, and then locking it again to keep all the connections firmly in place

Can you check if that is properly connected ? I think it has probably become disconnected.

Regards
Richard

 

[pascal]

Hi Richard,


The only wire I added on the connector at the back of the Comand is the wake-up wire (black/blue) for the CD-Changer.
I have a spare Comand connector and wire (coming from a damaged car); so, I removed the pin and its black/blue wire from this old connector and added it on the new one.

Is the CANbus connection you're talking about already included in my Audio5/Comand adapter or do I need to add an extra wire on the Comand connector ?

If yes, do you know the connector pin number (on the Comand) and/or the color of the wire I must add (So I'll check if I can get it from my spare connector) ?

I have a partial pinout diagram for the Comand connector; can I found a complete one somewhere ?

About day to night mode, I don't remember (I did the tests last week) and the A-Class is my wife's car who is not at home until the end of the week.
So I'll check this when she'll return on sunday.


Now, I think I'll wait until I solve this problem before going to my MB dealer for Cluster programming .


Thanks again for your help

I think the problem may be CANbus. Its the bus that the engine on signal comes over. I doubt your issue is firmware, the firmware update only made it work better, and cluster coding purely controls the cluster. It maybe that the EIS / CGW needs telling there is a nav system, but I dont think that would cause what you are seeing.

Does the COMAND change from day to night mode when car lights are turned on ? If the answer is no, then its highly likely to be can-bus (make sure the COMAND-APS is set so it switches lighting modes though, rather than being forced to use day or night mode all the time)

As you upgraded from an Audio-5 the converter loom has a wire that needs to be plugged into the canbus distributor in driver/passenger footwell (I think its fixed to the kick panel), the right distributor can be found because it has loads of identical connectors to the one on the converter loom plugged into it. Theres a magic way of unlocking connector so new ones can be plugged in, and then locking it again to keep all the connections firmly in place

Can you check if that is properly connected ? I think it has probably become disconnected.

Regards
Richard

 

[richard]

Hi Pascal,

Here is a picture of the adapter loom - this is as supplied, BUT has had a fibre loop added to it. You can still see the antenna adapter is taped to it ready to be removed for use on the antenna cable.
If you look theres a brown 2 pair cable - that is the CANbus cable that needs to be connected up to the canbus distributor

http://www.mercupgrades.com/images/200022007052.jpg

Cheers
Richard

[edit, the fibre loop is orange coloured]

 

[pascal]

Hi again Richard,


You're right, I missed the brown 2 pair cable.

I thought the CANbus was connected through the main connector.

I just need now to find the CANbus distributor.

I'll do this on Sunday and I'll let you know ...


Cheers

Pascal

Hi Pascal,

Here is a picture of the adapter loom - this is as supplied, BUT has had a fibre loop added to it. You can still see the antenna adapter is taped to it ready to be removed for use on the antenna cable.
If you look theres a brown 2 pair cable - that is the CANbus cable that needs to be connected up to the canbus distributor

http://www.mercupgrades.com/images/200022007052.jpg

Cheers
Richard

[edit, the fibre loop is orange coloured]

 

[richard]

I just need now to find the CANbus distributor.

Look in the right hand side footwell, near the side kick panel first. If no space on that one, look on the left hand side.

If you have one specific set of options there may be no space in the connector block, if so let me know and i'll find out part number for the 'extension' kit, which consists of another distributor and a short section of cable to connect it to the first one.

Cheers
Richard

[edit, pls if you can take a photo of it that I can then use on my website, i;d be grateful)

 

[pascal]

Richard,

I checked today and I found only one CANbus Connector on the right hand side (behind the blovebox), but unfortunately all the connections (about 10 or 12) are already used.
I did not found any CANbus connector on the left hand side.

So I think I'll have to buy the extension kit you talked about in your previous message.

Please send me your email address (by private message) so I'll send you the pictures of the CANbus connection I'll take.


Cheers

Pascal

Look in the right hand side footwell, near the side kick panel first. If no space on that one, look on the left hand side.

If you have one specific set of options there may be no space in the connector block, if so let me know and i'll find out part number for the 'extension' kit, which consists of another distributor and a short section of cable to connect it to the first one.

Cheers
Richard

[edit, pls if you can take a photo of it that I can then use on my website, i;d be grateful)

 

[wrong]

Pascal/Richard/anyone ?

I've also just completed upgrading an Audio-20 W169 to an APS/CD-Changer/Ipod combo, and am seeing the exact same problem as Pascal, i.e. the APS can see satellites, but will not update its position when the car is moving, and shuts down after about 30min. Everything else seems to function fine (though I have yet to get MB to update DAS/FDOK). Now I'm thinking that this must be the same CAN-bus input problem (APS doesn't appear to dim when the lights come on). However, I don't recollect seeing any spare CAN-bus leads as I reused the Audio-20 plug, which now sits on the end of the IPod breakout cable. I suspect I need a CAN-bus lead (thought this was prewired with the Audio-20, unlike the Audio-5), though have not come across this as a separate requirement for my particular upgrade.
Did you chaps have any success with this ?

 

[richard]

Hi

Pacal was upgrading from the Audio 5 which has the old type DIN connectors, so the MB loom for that also has a wire to go to the canbus distributor - Pascal connected that up and it all worked fine. It does sound like you have a CANbus issue - i'd suspect something up with the IPOD breakout cable (i.e that its not giving continuity for the CANbus connection - however, be careful whent testing as the IPOD breakout uses the CANbus connection as-well I think.

The Audio20 wiring has the new type connector with CANbus there on it

The 1st thing maybee to disconnect the IPOD breakout and see if the COMAND functions fine on the car's loom.

Really you need someone with Star Diagnosis to look at the errors COMAND is reporting.

R

 

[Alfie]

Pascal/Richard/anyone ?

I've also just completed upgrading an Audio-20 W169 to an APS/CD-Changer/Ipod combo, and am seeing the exact same problem as Pascal, i.e. the APS can see satellites, but will not update its position when the car is moving, and shuts down after about 30min. Everything else seems to function fine (though I have yet to get MB to update DAS/FDOK). Now I'm thinking that this must be the same CAN-bus input problem (APS doesn't appear to dim when the lights come on). However, I don't recollect seeing any spare CAN-bus leads as I reused the Audio-20 plug, which now sits on the end of the IPod breakout cable. I suspect I need a CAN-bus lead (thought this was prewired with the Audio-20, unlike the Audio-5), though have not come across this as a separate requirement for my particular upgrade.
Did you chaps have any success with this ?

I think this is probably just a coding issue. Have you had the unit and car coded to accept the COMAND and CD changer on the MOST ring in the right order?

As Richard suggests, you really do need this looked at with STAR.

 

[wrong]

> Richard
> Really you need someone with Star Diagnosis to look at the errors

> Alfie
> As Richard suggests, you really do need this looked at with STAR.

Oh, I do so wish I had one of those to play with. And no, the car is still plain vanilla, and has yet to be FDOK'd to Borg the new hardware, so I know I'm ultimately fighting a losing battle. As my last act of defiance before I throw in the towel I'll try and eliminate the iPod interface breakout...

 

[richard]

Wrong - where in London are you ?

R

 

[Alfie]

Let me have a think about this. Maybe we can meet up and sort this out for you for a nominal small charge.

 

[wrong]

Bit more fiddling this morning before work, and now the SatNav's operational - this leads me to summarize as follows:
Idiots guide to fitting APS, Tip 1 - Connect all the components.
I'd inserted the iPod breakout cable, but left the iPod interface disconnected - thinking that I would connect it once everything else was debugged/working. This in itself looks to have caused a break in the CAN-bus signalling. Most peculiar, but there you go.
Just the Cluster programming to go.
Richard I appreciate your offer of assistance - your online http://www.mercupgrades.com/ has been absolutely invaluable. I suspect I will now have to turn to Alfie for the cluster programming/FDOK update - I've CC'd [email protected]

 

[Alfie]

Bit more fiddling this morning before work, and now the SatNav's operational - this leads me to summarize as follows:
Idiots guide to fitting APS, Tip 1 - Connect all the components.
I'd inserted the iPod breakout cable, but left the iPod interface disconnected - thinking that I would connect it once everything else was debugged/working. This in itself looks to have caused a break in the CAN-bus signalling. Most peculiar, but there you go.
Just the Cluster programming to go.
Richard I appreciate your offer of assistance - your online http://www.mercupgrades.com/ has been absolutely invaluable. I suspect I will now have to turn to Alfie for the cluster programming/FDOK update - I've CC'd [email protected]

Glad it now works.

I'll PM you with a proposal for coding, cluster enabling and firmware update

 

[cshopper]

could someone explain better where I can find a canbus distributor?

Audio5->Comand upgrade, same problem as Pascal

Thankyou!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Flare , Italy