COMAND NTG 5s1RETROFIT from NGT4.5 Audio 20 ML 350 W166

[ML350BTC]

Hello everyone,
I am currently doing the COMAND NTG 5s1 retrofit on my ML350 W166 initially equipped with NTG4.5 Audio 20 (1CD).
I am currently doing the COMAND NTG 5s1 retrofit on my ML350 W166 initially equipped with NTG4.5 Audio 20 (1CD).
I share my work with you. You may also find this useful.
I think that the most important is the repinning of the Quadlock. After a long search in WIS, I identified most of the pins.
Here is the original NTG4.5 Audio 20 quadlock :

For A2 and B blocks I am sure of the pin identification.
Does anyone know what pin number 14 is for in NTG4.5 Audio 20 ? And in Comand NTG 5s1 (Wake up, USB Splitter ?) ?
Should I leave pin 14 (30g 0,35 RDBK) in place for Comand NTG 5s1 ?
For Comand NTG 5s1 WIS indicate Mute 0,35 BUBK for pin 9, what is it for ? In my Audio 20 this pin does not exist, so what I have to do? leave pin 9 empty ?
So you have to move following pins in Connector B (white): pin 2 (Mic Shield, 0,35 BK) to pin 3 , pin 7 (Mic 2+ 0,35 OG) to pin 2 and last pin 8 (GND 0,35 GN) to pin 9.
I still have some doubts for some pins of block B: in my NTG4.5 Audio 20 I have an auxiliary input in the center console, so I think pins 4, 5, 10 & 11 correspond to Aux input.
But with Comand NTG 5s1 I will no longer have the auxiliary input. So should I leave pins 4,5, 10 and 11 in place ?
For Comand NTG 5s1 WIS indicate: pin 4 = Mic + and pin 10 = Mic (-); what are these pins for ? are they really necessary when upgrading NtG4.5 Audio 20 to Comand NTG 5s1 ? What I have to do ?
Last question concerning block B: for NTG5s1 WIS indicate pin 7 = Cradle_comp (0,35 BUBK); what is it for ? what I have to do ?

Now let's go to block C (black 12 pin connector):

 

[ML350BTC]

Despite several searches in WIS, I did not find what the pins number 3, 4, 5, 6, 10 and 11 correspond to in my NTG 4.5 Audio 20.
Could someone please help to identify them so that I can apply the necessary changes to the Comand NTG5s1 pins?
For Comand NTG 5s1 WIS gives the following wiring for 12 pins black connector C:



By examining the diagrams of blocks A2, B and C, you see that it is necessary to make the following modifications:
a. move pin A2-9 (CAN B L 0,35 BN) to pin C-3
b. move pin B-6 (CAN A L 0,35 BN) to pin C-4
c. move pin A2-11 (CAN B H 0,35 BNRD) to pin C-9
d. move pin B-12 (CAN A H 0,35 BKWH) to pin C-10
e. add cable 1.3 of Fan M4/13 (additional fan for COMAND) to pin C-1
f. add cable 1.4 of Fan M4/13 (additional fan for COMAND) to pin C-8

Pins number 5,6,7,11 & 12 are related to Diag connector X11/4. I think I don't have these pins in my NTG4.5 Audio 20; so what I have to do ?


With these modifications I managed to get my Comand NTG 5s1 to work.



I continue to look for the missing information and will keep you posted as soon as I have any news.
Thank you in advance for your help
Kind regards

 

[Alfie]

Does it work properly with your instrument cluster and what happens when you select NAVI?

 

[ML350BTC]

Hello,
There are still some Problems:
1- there is no sound from the speakers; however block A1 is 100% identical between NTG4.5 Audio 20 and NTG 5s1. Do you have an idea why there is no sound?
The volume control (by +\- and volume button on the command) does not work either.
MOST is desactivated, so it should have sound.
What can be wrong?

2- Radio does not work, I have the following message on screen: “FM/DAB radio, device unavailable “ however the antenna cable is well connected.
what can be the problem?


3-when I press Navi, there is a message indicating that the map is not for my VIN,
so I have to buy a new map pin.

 

[Deleted member 149005]

I’d admire your efforts but your experience does illustrate why it costs to pay the pros to do it...

 

[ML350BTC]

I’d admire your efforts but your experience does illustrate why it costs to pay the pros to do it...

Yes greenmanslk you are right.
Any help is welcome.
thanks
regards

 

[Alfie]

Hello,
There are still some Problems:
1- there is no sound from the speakers; however block A1 is 100% identical between NTG4.5 Audio 20 and NTG 5s1. Do you have an idea why there is no sound?
The volume control (by +\- and volume button on the command) does not work either.
MOST is desactivated, so it should have sound.
What can be wrong?

2- Radio does not work, I have the following message on screen: “FM/DAB radio, device unavailable “ however the antenna cable is well connected.
what can be the problem?
View attachment 104278

3-when I press Navi, there is a message indicating that the map is not for my VIN,
so I have to buy a new map pin.

To answer your questions, im not at all surprised. Had an enquiry from someone similar recently, told them it wouldnt work. They didnt believe me.

Canbus signals are different, hence your steering wheel controls wont work. DAB is a separate control module. MOST network between NTG 4.5 and NTG 5 totally different.

You wont be able to buy a legal map pin until you have properly coded it with Xentry which you cant do because can and most is different plus NTG 5 isnt valid for your vin. Next you’ll have the anti theft pin issue too. Again, needs genuine Xentry to code it which it wont do for the above reasons.

If you really want NTG 5, sell the vehicle and buy a slightly newer one.

 

[ML350BTC]

To answer your questions, im not at all surprised. Had an enquiry from someone similar recently, told them it wouldnt work. They didnt believe me.

Canbus signals are different, hence your steering wheel controls wont work. DAB is a separate control module. MOST network between NTG 4.5 and NTG 5 totally different.

You wont be able to buy a legal map pin until you have properly coded it with Xentry which you cant do because can and most is different plus NTG 5 isnt valid for your vin. Next you’ll have the anti theft pin issue too. Again, needs genuine Xentry to code it which it wont do for the above reasons.

If you really want NTG 5, sell the vehicle and buy a slightly newer one.

Dear Alfie,
All done!
Almost all works, I just have to connect new USB CarPlay hub and reassemble all the parts.
You should never be pessimistic.
Regards

 

[ML350BTC]

Hello,
There are still some Problems:
1- there is no sound from the speakers; however block A1 is 100% identical between NTG4.5 Audio 20 and NTG 5s1. Do you have an idea why there is no sound?
The volume control (by +\- and volume button on the command) does not work either.
MOST is desactivated, so it should have sound.
What can be wrong?

2- Radio does not work, I have the following message on screen: “FM/DAB radio, device unavailable “ however the antenna cable is well connected.
what can be the problem?
View attachment 104278

3-when I press Navi, there is a message indicating that the map is not for my VIN,
so I have to buy a new map pin.

All these problems are fixed!
System works fine.
Regards

 

[markjay]

3-when I press Navi, there is a message indicating that the map is not for my VIN,
so I have to buy a new map pin.

When I had my COMAND Online NTG4.7 retrofitted to my W204 by Alfie and Richard form www.comandonline.co.uk, I did ask about installing the newer NTG5*1 or NTG5*2 instead.

What has been explained to me at the time, is that they might be able to install NTG5*1/2 and get it to work, but they won't be able to do the SCN Coding for an option that was never available for my car, and will therefore not be able to update the Datacard and more crucially they will not be able to generate the PIN code for the maps update.

Reading online, those who did pursue this route seem to have been using all sorts of methods of hacking the system and installing pirated maps, which I won't discuss here for obvious reasons, and which was of no interest to me anyway. I had COMAND Online NTG4.7 installed and it worked flawlessly for me ever since.

So I think that - unless you find a way to SCN-Code the unit and update Datacard (which required genuine STAR with subscription) - you won't be able to purchase a PIN code for it from MB.

The other option is to try and purchase a PIN code off eBay - there's some question marks regarding their legality, and they are most likely not genuine - but even so the seller will ask for your car's VIN and might just say that a PIN code could not be generated - I don't know.

 

[zipdip]

All these problems are fixed!

Well done,maybe you can video your command in action so we can see it working in your car.

 

[ML350BTC]

When I had my COMAND Online NTG4.7 retrofitted to my W204 by Alfie and Richard form www.comandonline.co.uk, I did ask about installing the newer NTG5*1 or NTG5*2 instead.

What has been explained to me at the time, is that they might be able to install NTG5*1/2 and get it to work, but they won't be able to do the SCN Coding for an option that was never available for my car, and will therefore not be able to update the Datacard and more crucially they will not be able to generate the PIN code for the maps update.

Reading online, those who did pursue this route seem to have been using all sorts of methods of hacking the system and installing pirated maps, which I won't discuss here for obvious reasons, and which was of no interest to me anyway. I had COMAND Online NTG4.7 installed and it worked flawlessly for me ever since.

So I think that - unless you find a way to SCN-Code the unit and update Datacard (which required genuine STAR with subscription) - you won't be able to purchase a PIN code for it from MB.

The other option is to try and purchase a PIN code off eBay - there's some question marks regarding their legality, and they are most likely not genuine - but even so the seller will ask for your car's VIN and might just say that a PIN code could not be generated - I don't know.

Hello dear markjay,
Thank you for your comment.
Comand was activated in my car with Vediamo.
Actually I don’t know yet for map data.
I will try to fix it when I installed all.
Regards

 

[ML350BTC]

Well done,maybe you can video your command in action so we can see it working in your car.

Ok I will do it as soon as possible.
Regards

 

[markjay]

Hello dear markjay,
Thank you for your comment.
Comand was activated in my car with Vediamo.
Actually I don’t know yet for map data.
I will try to fix it when I installed all.
Regards

Vediamo works in off-line programming mode - you need online SCN Coding to update the MB central computer. Does the NTG5*1 show on the Datacard (or when using online VIN decoder)? If not, then you won't be able to generate a (legitimate) maps update PIN code for your car's VIN. This is my understanding, anyway.

The issue as I see it is to get the MB central computer to accept a retrofit of NTG5*1 on a W204 - given that it was never available for the W204.

This might have worked on the W212 - because on the E-class, NTG4.5/4.7 was replaced by NTG5*1 during the last year of the production of the W212 (2016).

Otherwise, you may need to give-up on the maps update, or find a non-Kosher way of doing it (which I wouldn't recommend you do, but it's your car).

 

[mbzclk]

All these problems are fixed!
System works fine.
Regards

Great stuff! Well done. I can see you put some serious time and effort in figuring out all the wiring etc

Great to see a positive outcome.

 

[Alfie]

Dear Alfie,
All done!
Almost all works, I just have to connect new USB CarPlay hub and reassemble all the parts.
You should never be pessimistic.
Regards

How did you overcome the fact that NTG 5 MOST runs at a different speed to NTG 4.5?

Vediamo will code lots of things but should your car ever go into a dealer for any work and they update the system, it will all stop working. Have you driven the car with it all ‘done’?

 

[motodoctor66]

Hello,
There are still some Problems:
1- there is no sound from the speakers; however block A1 is 100% identical between NTG4.5 Audio 20 and NTG 5s1. Do you have an idea why there is no sound?
The volume control (by +\- and volume button on the command) does not work either.
MOST is desactivated, so it should have sound.
What can be wrong?

2- Radio does not work, I have the following message on screen: “FM/DAB radio, device unavailable “ however the antenna cable is well connected.
what can be the problem?
View attachment 104278

3-when I press Navi, there is a message indicating that the map is not for my VIN,
so I have to buy a new map pin.

I have the same problem in My w212 how do You solove it?

 

[zipdip]

Well Op has not been back since November with a video of the system working,I would give a big thumbs up for effort,but this may well be impossible to do and get everything working.

 

[mioba]

Well Op has not been back since November with a video of the system working,I would give a big thumbs up for effort,but this may well be impossible to do and get everything working.

Guess he had an electrical fire so there was nothing to post

 

[nameck]

Hello,
There are still some Problems:

2- Radio does not work, I have the following message on screen: “FM/DAB radio, device unavailable “ however the antenna cable is well connected.
what can be the problem?
View attachment 104278

Hello.

I need your help. I changed my NTG4.7 to NTG5s1 and I already put the unlock code and everything, however, the same problem as you, the antenna cable is connected but this message appears. How did you resolve? I have access to Vediamo.

Thanks