Coming soon...

[Noodle-Pulp]

More Taxation!
London drivers who let engines idle face £120 fine under Boris Johnson plan | News

Now he wants to target drivers of delivery vans, taxis and buses and "school gate mums" to tackle air and noise pollution. Campaigners accused him of clobbering motorists who already pay some of the highest parking charges as well as the £10 congestion fee. But officials insisted the Mayor was "firmly committed" to cleaner air in the capital.

 

[trainer]

Luckily my BMW has Stop Start. However the Merc hasn't. Maybe I should avoid London completely.

 

[corned]

I believe most of this thinking (if that's the right word) is based on London being the capital, and therefore it must be indispensable. Therefore people have no option but to cough up, or at least kowtow to whatever schemes are dreamt up.

Fortunately, I can manage without having to travel there, so am quite happy to choose to avoid the place.

 

[E CLASS]

Great idea I say.

I went shopping last weekend and saw bloke parked up near my car.

Engine running, fag in hand buried in a magazine.

I came out 40 minutes later - yes 40 - and he was still there smoking, reading with his engine running.

Is that right or wrong to have his engine running like that?

We all know the answer so its a great thing - bring it on.

 

[Noodle-Pulp]

TBH I believed the myth that restarting your engine used more fuel than idling for under 5 minutes (not sure where I got that misunderstanding from though). With the advent of Stop/Start it got me thinking more about it.

Here are some other myths:

1. 'The engine needs to stay on to keep the battery warm'
Improved battery design has largely eliminated this threat. Motorists rarely need to carry jump leads with them these days.

2. 'Turning the engine on and off wears it out'
Electronic ignitions in modern cars have eliminated this problem.

3. 'Catalytic converters need to be hot to work properly'
Yes, but an idling engine does not keep a catalytic converter warm. They retain their heat for about 25 minutes after an engine is switched off anyway.

4. 'Idling keeps an engine in better condition'
Wrong. Idling means incomplete combustion, leading to a build up of resides in an engine, increasing wear and tear.

5. 'Starting an engine uses more petrol than idling'
In fact, idling for more than 10 seconds uses more petrol that starting the motor.

 

[markjay]

I agree with the technical part.

However, Boris is right. Many bus drivers leave their bus with the engine running - and full of passengers - and go off to have a chat with the controller or change drivers with another bus. This is very frequent, last time it happened to me personally was the day before yesterday - we were in an unattended bus with the engine running for about 10 minutes.

But I do realise that this is actually OT - leaving a vehicle unattended with the engine running is illegal any way even under current rules.

 

[finisterre]

A policy written by Endemol.

 

[bpsorrel]

As I understood it, the rule will apply to cars parked, not waiting at lights or junctions (as a lot of the commenters on the site seemed to think). Only time I might sit with the engine idling is in winter, to keep the car warm while I wait for someone; other than that, seems a reasonable, if slightly draconian idea (why such a large fine?).

 

[markjay]

As I understood it, the rule will apply to cars parked, not waiting at lights or junctions (as a lot of the commenters on the site seemed to think). Only time I might sit with the engine idling is in winter, to keep the car warm while I wait for someone; other than that, seems a reasonable, if slightly draconian idea (why such a large fine?).

..or anyone who has COMAND and wants to listen to music while waiting...

The thing consumes power more than my old Audi 20, and if you wait long enough it will shut itself down and you will get the ESP error message when you start the car...

 

[st4]

Great idea I say.

I went shopping last weekend and saw bloke parked up near my car.

Engine running, fag in hand buried in a magazine.

I came out 40 minutes later - yes 40 - and he was still there smoking, reading with his engine running.

Is that right or wrong to have his engine running like that?

We all know the answer so its a great thing - bring it on.

Why, his petrol, his car, his money. Upto him to burn it as he see's fit. Why does it affect you how someone uses the petrol in their car, I am genuinely curious.

I feel that people who share your view point are exactly the problem in British society . That is one where other people see fit to judge and ultimately meddle in other peoples affairs, (and the powers that be legislate against other peoples legitimate affairs).

He might have been cold and wanted his heater on, or listen to his stereo without fear his battery would run out

I had someone come up to me in the petrol station yesterday and tell me my car was smoking, I said cold diesel engines do that. She said she has lung problems, and she was walking into the store. Why was she walking through a petrol station. She said people like me make her unwell, she had a dog with her, and I explained, (well lied) that I am allergic to dogs, and her point was what???

Live and let live, its much better.

Why are motorists hounded in this way. Its utter madness.

 

[Ade B]

Air quality in London isn't great, and its a good idea to make people think of the implications of their car cocooned activities.

I can't see how this will be enforced though.

Mr Johnson pledged to identify streets where idling is a particular problem, gather information on persistent offenders and improve enforcement. He will provide an email address where residents and businesses can report problems.

Several councils, including Wandsworth and Camden, already have fully policed no-idling zones and information campaigns. High levels of pollution from vehicle emissions are linked to the deaths of thousands of Londoners a year

Remember the Standard always reports the truth.. could anyone qualify the last line above?


Ade

 

[st4]

Air quality in London isn't great, and its a good idea to make people think of the implications of their car cocooned activities.

I can't see how this will be enforced though.

With zelous police and traffic wardens just waiting with the FPN and manditory fine.

 

[The Pan Man]

Is it not in the Highway Code as an advice note.

 

[Noodle-Pulp]

High levels of pollution from vehicle emissions are linked to the deaths of thousands of Londoners a year

Isn't this just the MP's that were caught with their trousers down and their expenses on show, or the bankers when they found they weren't getting the bonuses they were expecting?

 

[MOCAŠ]

could anyone qualify the last line above?

It comes from last year's London Air Quality Report. The related Q&A on the GLA's website states:

How can air quality affect my health?

Poor air quality can affect the quality of life of anybody living or working in London. However, its greatest effect is on vulnerable people such as children, elderly people and those with existing heart and respiratory conditions such as asthma, heart or pulmonary disease. A House of Commons committee recently heard evidence that poor air quality could contribute to 50,000 premature deaths per year across the UK. This is in line with our own research, which suggests that pollution contributed to an equivalent of 4,267 premature deaths in London in 2008.

It should be noted that these figures are hypothetical, although this should not take away from the fact that more needs to be done to tackle the problem. Robust data such as this, allows us to argue the case for London at a local borough, national and European level to get the additional funds and policy support needed to improve our air quality.

​

​

​

​

http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Air_ quality_Q&A.pdf

 

[Burger]

Live and let live, its much better.

The problem with that is that live and let live only works when you can rely on all others to act in your best interests as well as their own. Unfortunately while the majority of the population are bent on self interest - bugger the consequences for anyone else, we will have more and more such legislation to force what should be common sense and decency on us.

Regards,

 

[Scott_F]

TBH I believed the myth that restarting your engine used more fuel than idling for under 5 minutes (not sure where I got that misunderstanding from though). With the advent of Stop/Start it got me thinking more about it.

Here are some other myths:

1. 'The engine needs to stay on to keep the battery warm'
Improved battery design has largely eliminated this threat. Motorists rarely need to carry jump leads with them these days.

2. 'Turning the engine on and off wears it out'
Electronic ignitions in modern cars have eliminated this problem.

3. 'Catalytic converters need to be hot to work properly'
Yes, but an idling engine does not keep a catalytic converter warm. They retain their heat for about 25 minutes after an engine is switched off anyway.

4. 'Idling keeps an engine in better condition'
Wrong. Idling means incomplete combustion, leading to a build up of resides in an engine, increasing wear and tear.

5. 'Starting an engine uses more petrol than idling'
In fact, idling for more than 10 seconds uses more petrol that starting the motor.

You missed one out:

6. "Lazy fat b*stards need to sit in their parked car with the engine running and the heater on because if they got their over-sized backside out of the car and walked aroud a bit it would probably kill them".

 

[markjay]

Worry not, when petrol/diesel hits £10 per litre, this entire thread will become a non-issue

 

[renault12ts]

Relax everyone. There is already a £20 penalty for idling too long.

Transport sec, Philip Hammond is cool on Boris' idea...it wont rise to £120.