Coroner criticises Sprinter

[glojo]

I have just read a report about problems with a sticking 'load sensing' valve on Mercedes-Benz Sprinter vans being responsible for several fatal road accidents? No doubt the report has been exaggerated but it is still a cause for concern.

It appears to be the load sensing valve that varies the amount of pressure required to apply the rear brakes efficiently under differing load conditions. This valve has seized and caused the rear brakes to lock, thus spinning the vehicle.

This Bosche valve is not routinely checked when the vehicle is serviced, but........

Following a coroners recommendation, Mercedes-Benz are reviewing there servicing procedures with immediate effect???

Sorry if this thread is under the wrong heading

Regards,
John the concerned Sprinter owner

Just contacted my local dealership. They have also read the report, but have not heard anything yet officially. They state they will phone me when they hear something, but they are a busy workshop, so might well forget.

 

[Flash]

Off Topic: Thanks for the info... mine went in for a "Oil Service Plus" yesterday and if you want Glojo I'll PM you some fedback and findings... Its a shame that MB Passenger Car Stealers are no where near as good as the Commercial Stealers. The bill was reasonable too... I asked for some warranty work to be done too and they just ordered the parts straight from taking my word/self diagnosis without contesting/making a fuss after having a brief look and even found an additional fault and said immeditaley that it would be rectified under warranty...

 

[glojo]

Off Topic: Thanks for the info... mine went in for a "Oil Service Plus" yesterday and if you want Glojo I'll PM you some fedback and findings... Its a shame that MB Passenger Car Stealers are no where near as good as the Commercial Stealers. The bill was reasonable too... I asked for some warranty work to be done too and they just ordered the parts straight from taking my word/self diagnosis without contesting/making a fuss after having a brief look and even found an additional fault and said immeditaley that it would be rectified under warranty...

Thanks very much indeed, I'm always interested in any information.

Pricing wise I find the commercial dealers excellent, but then again the car side is just as good. (They are NOT part of the same company )

I have a very good relationship with our service department and as of the time of my 'edit' Mercedes-Benz had NOT notified any dealerships about any reviewed servicing procedures. They have also stated that this valve is NOT part of any servicing procedure. I would not criticise this honesty providing they learn lessons. This last fatal accident was the sixth KNOWN failure of this valve.

My vehicle will be serviced in the new year and I will be asking for this valve to be checked\replaced.

The Sprinter involved in this incident was five years old and had clocked up 400,000 miles. My concern is the lack of use my specific vehicle gets. In my opinion low mileage has more minus points than favourable ones.

Thanks for the offer,
John

 

[Swiss Toni]

Van fault concern at inquest

THOUSANDS of people who drive a popular Mercedes Benz van could be in danger of losing their lives after a potential fault was revealed at a Louth inquest.
The firm's technical experts believe there could be a defect in the Sprinter van – there are around 128,000 of the vehicles on Britain's roads.
The inquest at Louth Court heard how Grimoldby biker couple Vanessa Fenwick and Allan Benton died on the A16 near Alford because a Sprinter van's breaking system failed.
The same fault has already been found in other Sprinter vans which were involved in three other fatal accidents in the UK.
Louth coroner Stuart Fisher said: "There are many thousands of people driving these vehicles in the UK - they are potentially in danger until Mercedes Benz brings it to their attention."
Vanessa Fenwick, 37, and Allan Benton, 56, from Spinney Close, were killed in a crash near to the Calceby cross roads on June 21 last year.
The inquest heard they died instantly from multiple injuries when a Fenland Laundries Sprinter van smashed into them.
Mr Benton had been driving a Honda motorbike towards Louth with his partner a pillion passenger.
The inquest was told the Fenland Laundries vehicle, which was travelling in the opposite direction, broke suddenly.
Police believe the van, driven by Nicholas Brooks, was travelling above the 50mph speed limit. It spun off the road into a barrier, and then bounced off into the Honda bike.
The coroner was told how Mr Brooks, from Park Avenue, Skegness, was heard to repeat: "I've killed them. I'm going to go to jail."
Professors from the University of Manchester discovered a load sensor on the Sprinter had seized because of corrosion.
Mr Fisher said: "This meant that full breaking effort would be applied to the wheels irrespective of the load carried."
Collision investigator Pc Paul Whetstone said this had caused the rear breaks to lock.
A random police test on another Sprinter van owned by Fenland Laundries found the same fault.
ChryslerDaimler, which makes the vehicles, has promised to contact its parent firm, Mercedes Benz, to urgently review the problem.
Mercedes technical manager Giovanni Fischer said: "I now personally accept that a potential safety defect does exist."
Before the inquest, Mercedes said the breaking system did not need maintenance, but is now considering changing its stance.
Andrew Tudor, from the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA), said he will contact the Department of Transport and recommend Mercedes alter service and maintenance requirements.
The coroner recorded a verdict of accidental death.
08 December 2005


Sad reflection on the journo that they didn't know the difference between breaks and brakes.

 

[glojo]

Mercedes technical manager Giovanni Fischer said: "I now personally accept that a potential safety defect does exist."

Until I hear from Mercedes-Benz then I will maintain my usual stance of being very wary about the accuracy of our illustrious journalists.

It is easy to get sucked into believing articles are correct simply because they offer a version that you feel is correct, but I wonder who Giovanni Fischer really is, and what is meant by that alleged statement,

I now personally accept that a potential safety defect does exist.

Is he the Technical Manager of the local dealership, Mercedes-Benz UK, or Mercedes-Benz? Is he personally accepting there is a potential safety defect, or is he accepting responsibility on behalf of his employer (whoever that might be)

This last reported incident according to my newspaper happened in June of LAST year, I have no idea if this is correct but that is what is in the article. If this problem was serious then I would hope instructions would have been issued to check out the problem?

I am obviously concerned and will get an answer, but will carry on using our Sprinter.

The emergency services have hundreds (probably thousands) of these vehicles and it will be interesting to see what reactions they have to this report.

Regards,
John

 

[GrahamC230K]

I remember similar problems related to Fords. People used to lower the Series RS Turbo Escorts - they also had such a load valve - after lowering of course too much bias would be applied to the rear brakes.

 

[Sidney Plowman]

Load sensing valves tend to stick on most of the vans that I have had. Ford Escort, Citroen C 15 and Renault Extra. They have failed MOT tests on it( is part of the MOT test on Vans).They are under the van and the hinge that controls the valve rusts up and sticks.I had the rear end of the C15 overtake the front under heavy breaking on a wet road . Van manufactures should redesign this valve so that it does not suffer corrosion: make it from rust resistant metal or relocate it.

 

[guydewdney]

It isnt difficult to check - 30 seconds of under van scrabbling and you can see and check the valve. Check it moves - easy.. if it doesnt - repalce / reapir.

 

[glojo]

It isnt difficult to check - 30 seconds of under van scrabbling and you can see and check the valve. Check it moves - easy.. if it doesnt - repalce / reapir.

Hi Guy,
Totally agree and I would be very grateful if you could manage to take a picture of this valve and give a clear explanation of its whereabouts so that I can send 'She that must be obeyed', or number one son under the vehicle to check.

Would you recommend a silicone type lubricant, or leave well alone?

Nice speaking to you,
John

 

[guydewdney]

Ive had a look - I cant see a decent picture of one.

On the rear axle is a long arm that goes to a block valve with hydraulic lines coming off it.

as the axle moves up and down, the arm in turn rotates the valve (a bit like a very quick acting tap like you get in hospitals etc)

The more the axle is 'up' the more brake fluid is allowed through - therefore more brakes are applied to the rear. No weight = axle 'down' = very ittle brake fluid.

edit - item 30...

Its located on the left hand side of the vehicle, about 1 foot in front of the axle and is bolted to a chassis rail.

Personally, I'd spray some thick grease over it... doesnt matter what...

 

[glojo]

Its located on the left hand side of the vehicle, about 1 foot in front of the axle and is bolted to a chassis rail.

Personally, I'd spray some thick grease over it... doesnt matter what...

Thanks very much,

So looking from the rear of the vehicle, it is on the nearside, one foot in front of the rear axle, bolted to the chassis rail, and I guess it will have hydraulic pipes going into and out of it.

If wife cannot find it, trust me..... yours ears will be burning

Thanks very much indeed for the advice as our vehicle will always have a constant weight so the valve sounds like it might well be vunerable.

Regards,
John

Edit

Thanks very much for the diagram.

I will send the family out to seek and lubricate

Regards,
John

 

[GordonTarling]

Now I'm no Mercedes expert, but I am an engineer who is used to technical diagrams and that valve looks to me as if it is BEHIND the rear axle and on the right-hand side of the chassis. John - did your wife get under to have a look yet?

 

[Ian B Walker]

I will send the family out to seek and lubricate

Regards,
John

That statement makes me laugh. My other half has trouble putting petrol in mine never mind seek and lubricate. All credit to her.

Ian
Still cold
Preston
and working tonight when its expected to freeze

 

[glojo]

Now I'm no Mercedes expert, but I am an engineer who is used to technical diagrams and that valve looks to me as if it is BEHIND the rear axle and on the right-hand side of the chassis. John - did your wife get under to have a look yet?

Hi Gordon,
Totally agree, she has been busy all week-end and is at present out with the dog.

We are going to attempt to get me on the floor and together we should hopefully figure something out, but unfortunately the underneath of our 'stretched limo' is quite congested. Full length stretcher lift and heavy duty after market air conditioning units.

It is something I will not let rest and we will get to the bottom of it.

Regards,
John

 

[guydewdney]

Now I'm no Mercedes expert, but I am an engineer who is used to technical diagrams and that valve looks to me as if it is BEHIND the rear axle and on the right-hand side of the chassis. John - did your wife get under to have a look yet?

yes - you are right - in a way - the picture is from a 6xx series merc van - not as 3xx series van (sprinter) - and I have no idea if the valve is located in the same way....( afaik it looks very similar - but is the other side of the axle) - however - it does show the rough posistion and style of the valve in question, and should help the non techical john's of the world locate it by deduction. If the diagram is not clear enough - then the searcher by definition isnt compentant to grease / lubricte / inspect the component.. imho...

 

[190D]

The valve should be very easy to find just follow the brake pipes going to the rear, they will go into the load sensing valve and there will be a lever connecting it to the rear axle should connect near the centre of the axle

 

[glojo]

Right I bit the bullet and had the whole tribe throw me to the ground and then we manipulated me under the vehilce (Just my head and shoulders)

This is a long 'complex' rod and linkage piece of technology which operates a valve that very annoyingly cannot be seen. It sits on top of a metal support and lays between the support and the underside of the vehicle. (item number 190 on the diagram)

I attempted to pull (Operate) the linkage but unfortunately pain took over and I went into spasm Everything under my vehicle looks pristine, but I am tempted to buy an aerosol can of silicone lubricant and simply spray the whole linkage\valve assembly???

I have contacted the dealer and they are completely relaxed about the whole issue, and are very happy to check that my van (stretched limo) is okay?? (I know the man that I spoke to)

They did say however that the vehicle in question was speeding and failed to negotiate a bend. The driver for some reason, paniced and applied the brakes whilst still cornering, so the story does suffer from the skills of the journalist. There has NOT been any advisory warnings from Mercedes-Benz and the item is still one that is NOT on any servicing schedule.

I will not be taking my vehicle to the garage, but when it is due for its next service I will ensure that this valve is inspected.

I'm not sure if Guy's diagram relates to the latest Sprinter as the plate (no 190) is the item that supports the valve assembly and this plate actually bolts onto the floooring of the vehicle (it might have metal strengthing) On Guy's diagram it gives the impression it is mounted on its side?? The whole assembly is huge and cannot be mistaken, it is indeed on the passenger side between the front and rear wheels. (It must be at least one metre in length)

Do our more technically minded experts recomend I spray this linkage with a silicone sparay (NOT WD40) Or leave well alone? The linkage is well over a metre long so applying grease is both awkward and not easy)

If I wasn't 'crying' with the pain I would have tried to take some pictures.

Regards,
John

 

[guydewdney]

John - you might want this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRAND-NEW-MER...16414054QQcategoryZ108856QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

its the brake pressure regulator for a sprinter..

 

[glojo]

John - you might want this

Thanks very much indeed for the link

John

 

[Dieselman]

John
I wouldn't get too hooked up on this. Many vehicles have brake proportioning valves and a number sieze. As and when have your local dealer check the valve for corrosion and lubricate the moving components with grease. That will stop the corrosion and seizure.

If Gloria can stop driving like Mikka Hakkinen then you won't have any problems anyway.

However it has to be said that to not cover an item such as this with basic mainteneance is irresponsible of MB. Err one check every three years and a grease up would be enough to have stopped this problem.