Correct Oil C220 Cdi

Discussion in 'Engine' started by BigJC, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. BigJC

    BigJC New Member

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    My car was serviced at a main dealer today & they have used 0W30 oil when previously it has had 5w30 low ash. Just curious as to why it has thinner black stuff put in at a higher mileage?!
     
  2. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    Long life oil. It starts off thinner to allow for thickening.
     
  3. OP
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    BigJC

    BigJC New Member

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    Thanks for the reply, it managed to drink 7.5 litres of the stuff according to the invoice.... or 6.5 if you look at the job sheet.
     
  4. Gollom

    Gollom Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Hmmmm - interesting. As the capacity is only 6.5L I am sure! Did they leave you 1L in the car for top-ups? I take my own oil!
     
  5. Number_Cruncher

    Number_Cruncher Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    >>0W30 oil when previously it has had 5w30 low ash

    At running temperatures, is this oil actually thinner?
     
  6. partsspecialist

    partsspecialist Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Hey Big JC. Im quite concerned here, If you have had low ash oil put in previously that would suggest thay your car is a newer C220 CDI with a diesel particulate filter in the exhaust. Please post me your VIN and ill check for you.
    If this is the case you MUST have low ash oil in the car or it will considerably shorten the life of the DP filter, this is something you definately dont want to replace outside the warranty period.
    We have Mobil 1 0-30 oil here which we only put in smart cars and AMG powered cars.
    PS the filling capacity of your car should be 6.5l
     
  7. Rory

    Rory MB Club Veteran

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    Honestly, the dealers really are outrageous.

    They'll probably swear blind they put the right oil in (although there have been other posts about dealers not using low ash oil, for which they should be strung up) and they'll say the extra litre is for top-up but they forgot to leave it in the car. When they're charging around £15/litre, it's really little short of theft, and they shouldn't charge without asking you in the first place.
     
  8. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    It is compared to 5W-40, which will provide better protection.
    Thinner oils are used for fuel economy and to extend the service life, but provide lower protection.
     
  9. Number_Cruncher

    Number_Cruncher Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    >>but provide lower protection

    For normal use, I don't see hot viscosity as a big problem. Racing, heavy towing, yes, OK, a thicker oil when hot is not a bad idea.

    As per the oil thread the other day - how often is damage from this cause encountered?

    The real damage, if any, is caused by the oil being too thick when cold IMO.

    I think the low ash issue is much more important than the otherwise beneficial change from 5W30 to 0W30.
     
  10. GeorgeA

    GeorgeA Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
  11. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    The thicker viscosity will provide better pressure and shear protection, which is why manufacturers have always specified a thicker hot viscosity.
    The lower the hot viscosity the lower the ultimate protection will be and will cause increased wear.
    Racing applications are different as they run wider bearing clearances to reduce frictional losses, thus require an oil thicker than normal.
     
  12. OP
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    BigJC

    BigJC New Member

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    Thanks for the reply! How can I send a PM? I don't have the option and it's not the type of information I'd be happy posting.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
  13. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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  14. Number_Cruncher

    Number_Cruncher Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    >>will cause increased wear.

    I think that 30 weight oil is not in the regime of causing more wear, and for most users, the extra fuel economy compared with a 40 weight oil is worth enjoying. In other words, I don't see engines being ruined by 30 weight oil - hot viscosity, for most, is a non-issue.
     
  15. partsspecialist

    partsspecialist Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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  16. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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  17. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    Only 3 to go..

    I've edited your email addy in my quote to stop spambots.
     
  18. prc

    prc Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    My 2 cents

    Only been a merc diesel owner for 7 months, but from previous experience (17+ yrs driving diesels) feel that you won't have major wear issues running 30W oil under normal conditions.
    I do agree that W40 oil will provide more protection, but again under normal driving conditions you won't get any benefit from the W40.


    My previous car a Seat Toledo TDI PD 150 (which I still own) has cover over 400000Km and has not had wear issues, even on the extra cam lobe (for PD). Oil = Motul Spec VW505.01 5W-30. The TDI I had before that also ran on Motul 5W-30 and cover 247000km. Remember that I live in Portugal with much warmer temps (which compounds things).

    Paulo
     
  19. Number_Cruncher

    Number_Cruncher Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    >>will encourage greater wear levels.

    It's a non-issue. A 30 weight oil is fine, as Ford has been recommending for its petrol and diesel engines for many years.

    For a pre-common rail MB engines, I would agree that a 40 weight oil is recommended, with no 30 weight option.

    However, how many cars today give engine problems? Even into old age, a car is likely to go to the scrapyard with its engine never having being opened up. You're much likeier to have an expensive failure in other parts of the car, or, a simple accumulation of problems causing the car to be finally scrapped than a **lubrication based engine failure.

    ** engine failures from things like cam belt failure, running out of oil or water and head gasket failure are quite common, but, not lubrication failure.

    Phrased another way, going from 30 weight to 40 weight does give larger working seperations between moving parts, but, if this doesn't result in any practical difference to the life of the engine/vehicle, then there is no benefit to the user. Changing from 40 to 30 weight, on the other hand, gives an immediate and ongoing fuel economy benefit, still providing adequate engine life.
     
  20. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    Would a generally worn out engine not constitute a failure.? Using a thicker oil should postpone the eventual wear.
    You are probably not wrong when you say a lighter oil won't cause an immediate problem but it won't provide the protection of a heavier one. The reason they have been adopted is purely for fuel economy even though there will be a detrimental aspect.

    Comment from 'the Oil Bible'
    So it needs to be as thick as possible when warm.
    http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

    The reason for 10W30 oil. Fuel economy, not wear protection.

    [​IMG]

    the reason for reduced phosphorous content e.g. MB299.51 spec.

    Phosphorus is the key component for valve train protection in an engine, and 1600ppm (parts per million) used to be the standard for phosphorus in engine oil. In 1996 that was dropped to 800ppm and then more recently to 400ppm - a quarter of the original spec. Valvetrains and their components are not especially cheap to replace and this drop in phosphorus content has been a problem for many engines. So why was the level dropped? Money. Next to lead, it's the second most destructive substance to shove through a catalytic converter. The US government mandated a 150,000 mile liftime on catalytic converters and the quickest way to do that was to drop phosphorous levels and bugger the valvetrain problem. Literally.


    A bit about viscosity, note the table at the bottom.
    http://www.carbibles.com/viscosity.html

    Two comparative oils from one manufacturer. Millers Oils.
    XFS 5w40
    SAE Viscosity Grade ... 5w40
    Specific Gravity @ 15°C ... 0.855
    Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C ... 13.8cSt
    Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C ... 86cSt
    Viscosity Index ... 165
    Pour Point °C ... -42
    Flashpoint °C ... 220
    Cold Crank Viscosity @ -30°C ... 6,590cP

    XF LONG LIFE 5w30
    SAE Viscosity Grade ... 5w30
    Specific Gravity @ 15oC ... 0.853
    Kinematic Viscosity @ 100oC ... 11.3cSt
    Kinematic Viscosity @ 40oC ... 69.0
    Viscosity Index ... 158
    Pour point C ... -40
    Flashpoint C ... 210
    Cold Crank Viscosity @ -30oC ... 5,546cP

    Note the hot viscosity reduction of the 30 weight oil. That's a 19% reduction.

    Does this matter.? Maybe, I need to find some scar test results. If anyone has a source please speak up.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008

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