Corroded Brake and Fuel Pipes

[ash_2009]

Dear All,

I just got my 1994 W124 E220 cabriolet. Very nice car to drive, look at and cruise in!!! I love it...

Few things that have come up in the MOT advisory which I need some help on please.

(1) There has been a advisory on the brake and fuel pipes beginning to corrode. This is at the back near the rear suspension on the flat bits before it turns up into the chasis (looking from underneath the car on a ramp). Unfortunately all the pipes I think 4 in total are corroded about 12 inches or so. The rest of the pipes from the engine and up the chasis at the back is spotless. I have heard this is a common problem in the W124 series.

I tried to have mercedes benz to look at it and they have given me a estimate of some thousands pounds!!!!! I nearly had a cardiac arrest. I asked if they could just replace the approx 12 inches corroded pipes with joints or unions...and they said NO.

I really dont want to spend all this money now so was wondering if anybody has had this problem and can help...or suggest what to do. I am near the Heathrow area.

(2) Just noticed that the sun visor on the drivers side has a mirror but the lights dont work when you open the flap to look in the mirror!!! Any idea on how to open and replace the bulbs....OR am i correct in saying that only the passengers side illumination works and the drivers side doesnt????

Very much appreciated

Ashish

 

[lynall]

Well if the pipes are not leaking a good wire brush up and some grease applied will stop it getting any worse and only cost pennies.



Lynall

 

[BlackC55]

It all really depends on how bad they are.

A really good cleaan up then a very close look is needed. Joining pipes can be used if they are bad for much less cost.

 

[219]

I asked if they could just replace the approx 12 inches corroded pipes with joints or unions...and they said NO.

Rubbish !

This is EXACTLY why Mercedes-Benz supply a compression coupling , part no. A 003 997 91 72

Probably the garage in question thought they could fleece you instead of divulging this .

I have used these parts to repair the high pressure hydraulic lines for my self levelling suspension .

I wouldn't quite trust it for brake lines , though .

 

[grober]

I'm sure an effective repair can be done for much less than you have been quoted. You are in the fortunate position of having a car which is roadworthy for now. This will allow you to visit several garages---MB specialists or those experienced in brake pipework-- to get the car inspected for alternative quotes. You might also want to explore the use of cupro-nickel piping? Automec: Automotive Brake Pipe & Parts Specialists

 

[A210AMG]

Hello

My Farther inlaws 2000 ML just had two coroded brake pipes fixed and a coroded fuel line. Service and MOT all for £250

I'm sure piecing the pipes would be absolutly fine. the bits are a little like your gas pipes at home. It CAN BE done for much less that they have quoted.


Good luck

 

[ash_2009]

Thanks Lynall

The pipes are not leaking so far...touch wood..I am a little apprehensive that maybe if i scrap too hard I might just cause a hole or more damage. Then I will be really stuck. Like the say if its "working" well then dont mess with it. But I did think of doing just that!!

Well if the pipes are not leaking a good wire brush up and some grease applied will stop it getting any worse and only cost pennies.



Lynall

 

[ash_2009]

Thanks Pontoneer,

I will check on that part number you gave me. The question is with these joints would it pass the MOT??

And I have the same concern as you with regards the brake pipes...I am not quite sure how well the joints would work on these pipes..again cause of the health and safety issue I dont quite know what the MOT tester might make of this.

Ash

Rubbish !

This is EXACTLY why Mercedes-Benz supply a compression coupling , part no. A 003 997 91 72

Probably the garage in question thought they could fleece you instead of divulging this .

I have used these parts to repair the high pressure hydraulic lines for my self levelling suspension .

I wouldn't quite trust it for brake lines , though .

 

[ash_2009]

Thanks Grober

I will check out some specialists. I will also have a look at the site. MY problem is I am not very good with fixing so I will need to get someone to do this for something reasonable rather than rob me of several thousands of pounds.

Ash

I'm sure an effective repair can be done for much less than you have been quoted. You are in the fortunate position of having a car which is roadworthy for now. This will allow you to visit several garages---MB specialists or those experienced in brake pipework-- to get the car inspected for alternative quotes. You might also want to explore the use of cupro-nickel piping? Automec: Automotive Brake Pipe & Parts Specialists

 

[ash_2009]

Thanks A210AMG

Where in England are you???maybe you can recommend me the same mechanic?? I am in the Heathrow area.

Ash

Hello

My Farther inlaws 2000 ML just had two coroded brake pipes fixed and a coroded fuel line. Service and MOT all for £250

I'm sure piecing the pipes would be absolutly fine. the bits are a little like your gas pipes at home. It CAN BE done for much less that they have quoted.


Good luck

 

[lynall]

I probably wouldnt join the brake pipes but cant see any problem with the suspension pipes.

Though i bet legally and mechanically you could join the brake pipes, but as the nickel/copper stuff is so cheap it would be a waste to do a bitza job.

Because all you would do is flare the pipe ends and stick a coupler between the two ends exactly the same as if making a brake pipe from nickel.

If they are not leaking now a good scraping wont do any harm as the pressure would have blown through the pipe if it was structurally weakened.



Lynall

 

[ash_2009]

Hey Lynall

Yes I agree with you. I might sound stupid but I am not sure if this car has self leveling suspension. I would have to go under the car again and look at all the pipes and count how many there are.

Also...and this is my opionion only the actuall new replacement pipes either the copper nickel ones or the "mercedes genuine" supplied ones(where ever they get them from), isnt that expensive...but what Mercedes like to do is charge like 100 pounds per hour for labour then tell you its 2 days work...hence some several thousand pounds...thats what I hate!!!

Ash

I probably wouldnt join the brake pipes but cant see any problem with the suspension pipes.

Though i bet legally and mechanically you could join the brake pipes, but as the nickel/copper stuff is so cheap it would be a waste to do a bitza job.

Because all you would do is flare the pipe ends and stick a coupler between the two ends exactly the same as if making a brake pipe from nickel.

If they are not leaking now a good scraping wont do any harm as the pressure would have blown through the pipe if it was structurally weakened.



Lynall

 

[219]

The pipes themselves are very cheap - the self levelling ones that go all the way from the front of the car to the back are something like £15 apiece from Mercedes . Brake pipes should cost about the same .

I have replaced pipework on two W124 estates and one W123 estate in the same place .

All estate cars have self levelling , but it is an option on other body types .

The BIG cost is labour as the 'official' method involves removing the rear suspension along with the subframe : at the factory the pipes are fitted up to the underbody before the suspension is fitted and it is nigh impossible to bend the pipes as you go around these components and still do a neat job - I even bought a 'proper' pipe bender and still found it impossible - that was when Stef at Merparts told me about the compression couplings - so I cut the new pipes into sections that I could bend and thread around the subframe then joined them together again . I also painted everything with Hammerite to ward off further corrosion .

The self levelling works at a very high pressure and my couplings never leaked , but I still wouldn't trust them on brake lines - your life can depend on brakes , unlike self levelling where a failure usually would not result in an immediate dropping of the car .

 

[johnsco]

There's nothing wrong with using a brake pipe coupler piece.
For a proper pressure-tight joint, you need properly-flared brake pipe ends with male pipe nuts into both ends of the coupler.
In this way, you can fit short pieces around awkward corners and make good connections.
They will stand the pressure if they are the right parts for the job.
I recommend 90/10 copper-nickel brake pipe.
It bends and flares more-easily than steel pipe ...
AND
... It's corrosion-proof.
Make sure it's properly secured.
Otherwise it can rattle about and fracture due to work-hardening.
In many years of using it, I have never known a piece fail.

In another life, I was the inspection manager for IMI Yorkshire Alloys in Leeds, where we used to manufacture the "Kunifer-10" brake pipe.
Miles and miles and miles of it !!
This was seamless pipe of Cu-Ni-Fe (copper-nickel-iron).
The same 90/10 copper-nickel tube is used for sea-water systems in frigates, air-craft carriers and submarines.
Also used as heat-exchanger tubes in many coastal power stations.
Sadly, it's largely imported from abroad now.
I don't know anyone still making it in this country.

The only volume-car manufacturer ever to install it as original equipment was Volvo.
All other volume car makers stuck to steel.
And, we all know what happens to steel on salted roads.
It rusts like hell.

Cheers.
Johnsco

 

[219]

The Mercedes couplings I mentioned above do not rely on flared ends , they are simple compression couplings that tighten themselves onto a neatly cut pipe . That's why I reckoned they were OK for SLS but not for brakes .

Of course , if you buy a flaring tool and couplings , you can do pretty much what you like .

 

[johnsco]

The Mercedes couplings I mentioned above do not rely on flared ends , they are simple compression couplings that tighten themselves onto a neatly cut pipe . That's why I reckoned they were OK for SLS but not for brakes .

Definitely NOT suitable for brakes under any circumstances !!
The recommended maximum working pressure for K10 brake pipe 4.75mm OD x 0.7mm wall is 3050 psi (210 bar).
Typical brake system pressures regularly approach 1000 psi
Johnsco