Covid-19 Discussion - STRICTLY NO POLITICS!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Scooby_Doo

MB Enthusiast
SUPPORTER
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
1,469
Location
West Wales
Car
W205 C250d 4matic
Covid vaccination looks a lot like insulin jabs for diabetics and a diabetic friend never bothered baring skin for his. Just stuck the needle through his jeans to find flesh. Five layers of fabric may be a test too far for a flimsy hypo needle though.
I think that you're friend's a lazy fool, that must be the quickest way to get an infection whilst injecting oneself.
 

Scooby_Doo

MB Enthusiast
SUPPORTER
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
1,469
Location
West Wales
Car
W205 C250d 4matic
Whilst I accept ( I have not seen any data to prove/ disprove the assumption) that there are false positives in the PCR tests I doubt very much if there are many false positives on actual hospital admissions and subsequent deaths. Do the people who constantly quote the PCR figures to justify their arguments for the relaxing / ending the lockdown think that these figures are the only data that's being used to determine what steps the government take to control this epidemic. There might be the odd buffoon in the gang but the majority are experts in their field and and should be given credit for not basing their decisions on one set of data unlike many contributors to this thread.
 

MikeInWimbledon

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
Messages
3,189
Car
2013 CL500 Previously S212 E500, W211 E500 5.5, E350 S500, S211 E500, SL350, SL500, S500, E55
Whilst I accept ( I have not seen any data to prove/ disprove the assumption) that there are false positives in the PCR tests I doubt very much if there are many false positives on actual hospital admissions and subsequent deaths. Do the people who constantly quote the PCR figures to justify their arguments for the relaxing / ending the lockdown think that these figures are the only data that's being used to determine what steps the government take to control this epidemic. There might be the odd buffoon in the gang but the majority are experts in their field and and should be given credit for not basing their decisions on one set of data unlike many contributors to this thread.

It's a serious point that Case count has always been a poor quality indicator.

Twelve months ago we weren't counting cases in any way accurately. This led us to UNDER-count Covid deaths in Q1 and Q2 2019.

Now we count people in immense numbers and count cases using a method that we know gives false positives.

.
 

MikeInWimbledon

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
Messages
3,189
Car
2013 CL500 Previously S212 E500, W211 E500 5.5, E350 S500, S211 E500, SL350, SL500, S500, E55
Whilst I accept ( I have not seen any data to prove/ disprove the assumption) that there are false positives in the PCR tests I doubt very much if there are many false positives on actual hospital admissions and subsequent deaths. Do the people who constantly quote the PCR figures to justify their arguments for the relaxing / ending the lockdown think that these figures are the only data that's being used to determine what steps the government take to control this epidemic. There might be the odd buffoon in the gang but the majority are experts in their field and and should be given credit for not basing their decisions on one set of data unlike many contributors to this thread.

Excess deaths are "probably" a more reliable count that "covid19" coded deaths. Why ?

We didn't have the tech, or time, to identify covid properly in Q1 and Q2 2019

Covid flattens the old and the unhealthy. My uncle died of covid two months ago, according to the certificate. He was 89, a lifetime asthmatic, had a heart attack in his 40's, three strokes in his 50's, probably some other TIA's, was a lifetime pipe smoker, never took any form of exercise, was normally obese, and suffered from dementia for the last three years of his life. Did he really die "of" Covid, or "with Covid?" Hand on heart, I can't say that he would not have died this year, if Covid19 hadn't been around.

(Oh, and how did he die with Covid? He fell, at home, as 89 year olds do, and broke a rib. Was taken to hospital where he caught Covid AFTER admission. He then died - 25% of NHS hospitalised Covid patients caught their Covid AFTER being admitted to hospital)

Excess death is the best measure of the impact of covid19. Death codings are subjective, and there will be others who will die this year, and next, from failure to obtain treatment for the things that normally kill people: heart disease, cancer, COPD and dementia.
 
Last edited:

markjay

MB Master
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
32,896
Location
London
Car
W204 C180 Executive SE 2013 Automatic / COMAND NTG4.7 and Morel speakers fitted by www.comand.co.uk
Whilst I accept ( I have not seen any data to prove/ disprove the assumption) that there are false positives in the PCR tests I doubt very much if there are many false positives on actual hospital admissions and subsequent deaths. Do the people who constantly quote the PCR figures to justify their arguments for the relaxing / ending the lockdown think that these figures are the only data that's being used to determine what steps the government take to control this epidemic. There might be the odd buffoon in the gang but the majority are experts in their field and and should be given credit for not basing their decisions on one set of data unlike many contributors to this thread.

The traditional explanation were that the hospital admissions and the deaths are not actually COVID-19 related, and only recorded so in error. This has been said by various medical experts - including Dr Yeadon - in various interviews.

This is what he said in November, for example:

“the pandemic is effectively over and can easily be handled by a properly functioning NHS (National Health Service). Accordingly, the country should immediately be permitted to get back to normal life.”

(From Former Pfizer VP: ‘No need for vaccines,’ ‘the pandemic is effectively over’)

But then came the third wave (in mid-December) and Dr Yeadon was taken off-air.... in order for his 'the pandemic is over' theory to survive through December and January, it would have required the assumption that the apparent correlation between the PCR tests and subsequent deaths is coincidental, an assumption that is impossible to maintain when looking at the data for the past three months.
 

markjay

MB Master
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
32,896
Location
London
Car
W204 C180 Executive SE 2013 Automatic / COMAND NTG4.7 and Morel speakers fitted by www.comand.co.uk
More good news:

39318724-9262785-image-a-22_1613406097411.jpg


39320026-9262785-image-a-4_1613408128986.jpg


(By date reported)
 
D

Deleted member 37751

Guest
On the subjective of it going quiet - and although some do really seem to enjoy their TL;DR posts - I think it’s simply thread fatigue kicking in; there’s a broad line drawn between those who happily do as they’re told and would gladly stay in lockdown ad infinitum like good little boys and then there are those who are keen on holding those in power to account for their decisions (as should be expected in any democracy) while also realising the catastrophic effect it’s had on those least at risk of illness or death.
 

Scooby_Doo

MB Enthusiast
SUPPORTER
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
1,469
Location
West Wales
Car
W205 C250d 4matic
On the subjective of it going quiet - and although some do really seem to enjoy their TL;DR posts - I think it’s simply thread fatigue kicking in; there’s a broad line drawn between those who happily do as they’re told and would gladly stay in lockdown ad infinitum like good little boys and then there are those who are keen on holding those in power to account for their decisions (as should be expected in any democracy) while also realising the catastrophic effect it’s had on those least at risk of illness or death.
My dad used to tell me stories like that at bedtime when I was three years old , the only difference being , he knew they were fairy stories.
 

Swotty

MB Enthusiast
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
2,319
Location
South West France
Car
2003 CL600
No need for such drastic action, just close Professor Ferguson's modelling and forecasting department .. send them to work in the EU

He was in overdrive in tv appearances today. I saw him on at least 3 channels. He and Imperial College have no shame.
 

Swotty

MB Enthusiast
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
2,319
Location
South West France
Car
2003 CL600
When I and others said 6-12 months ago that we would end up with compulsory vaccinations and requiring a vaccination pass to access services including basic shopping, there was much scoffing and derision by some on here.

I did say at one point that the covid pass would be digitised, which it isn't yet.

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the chances of that not happening, now?
 

Piff

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
2,294
Location
Suffolk
Car
Mitsubishi L200 Barbarian, BMW X3
(Oh, and how did he die with Covid? He fell, at home, as 89 year olds do, and broke a rib. Was taken to hospital where he caught Covid AFTER admission. He then died - 25% of NHS hospitalised Covid patients caught their Covid AFTER being admitted to hospital)
Neighbour died today in almost identical circumstances
 

Scooby_Doo

MB Enthusiast
SUPPORTER
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
1,469
Location
West Wales
Car
W205 C250d 4matic
When I and others said 6-12 months ago that we would end up with compulsory vaccinations and requiring a vaccination pass to access services including basic shopping, there was much scoffing and derision by some on here.

I did say at one point that the covid pass would be digitised, which it isn't yet.

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the chances of that not happening, now?
Well you seem to have three out of three predictions wrong so far , not doing very well , although some on here would call that a 100% result.
 

Bobby Dazzler

MB Club Veteran
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
19,877
Location
Mittel England
Car
ML AMG-line Black Series
When I and others said 6-12 months ago that we would end up with compulsory vaccinations and requiring a vaccination pass to access services including basic shopping, there was much scoffing and derision by some on here.

I did say at one point that the covid pass would be digitised, which it isn't yet.

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the chances of that not happening, now?
Is it now compulsory to have a vaccination, and without one you can’t go shopping? 😳

I’ve been getting away with it so far - I haven’t received the vaccination yet and I go shopping - so you don’t see me, right?
 

SW18

MB Enthusiast
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jul 7, 2016
Messages
1,334
Location
London
Car
S212 E500 Sport
When I and others said 6-12 months ago that we would end up with compulsory vaccinations and requiring a vaccination pass to access services including basic shopping, there was much scoffing and derision by some on here.

I did say at one point that the covid pass would be digitised, which it isn't yet.

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the chances of that not happening, now?
I’m confused: which of these things have now come to pass?
 

markjay

MB Master
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
32,896
Location
London
Car
W204 C180 Executive SE 2013 Automatic / COMAND NTG4.7 and Morel speakers fitted by www.comand.co.uk
When I and others said 6-12 months ago that we would end up with compulsory vaccinations and requiring a vaccination pass to access services including basic shopping, there was much scoffing and derision by some on here.

I did say at one point that the covid pass would be digitised, which it isn't yet.

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the chances of that not happening, now?

I can understand why anyone believing in the Bill Gates / WEF / Microchips / Nanorobots / NWO theories will be concerned about the developments that you describe.

But setting these aside for a moment - and without going into the discussion of whether these theories are valid or not - apart from these, what other grounds for concern would there be in respect of the set of events as you describe them?

More that 170m(!) people worldwide have received COVID-19 vaccines since December, with no major side effects. What reason would anyone have to refuse it?

To clarify, I am not suggesting that vaccination should become mandatory in law - I am interested in a discussion where those who refuse vaccination can air their views and explain their reasons.

(I have deliberately excluded 'conspiracy theorists' from the discussion - simply because I know we won't come to an agreement anyway).
 

ChipChop

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
2,771
Location
Newcastle
Car
S210 320cdi w201 190d 2.5
I can understand why anyone believing in the Bill Gates / WEF / Microchips / Nanorobots / NWO theories will be concerned about the developments that you describe.

But setting these aside for a moment - and without going into the discussion of whether these theories are valid or not - apart from these, what other grounds for concern would there be in respect of the set of events as you describe them?

More that 170m(!) people worldwide have received COVID-19 vaccines since December, with no major side effects. What reason would anyone have to refuse it?

To clarify, I am not suggesting that vaccination should become mandatory in law - I am interested in a discussion where those who refuse vaccination can air their views and explain their reasons.

(I have deliberately excluded 'conspiracy theorists' from the discussion - simply because I know we won't come to an agreement anyway).
I take it you are familiar with the vaccine adverse event reporting system or VAERS. Is this what you base your statement of no major side effects on may i ask? The UK as far as i know has no equivalent reporting system.
 

SW18

MB Enthusiast
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jul 7, 2016
Messages
1,334
Location
London
Car
S212 E500 Sport

markjay

MB Master
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
32,896
Location
London
Car
W204 C180 Executive SE 2013 Automatic / COMAND NTG4.7 and Morel speakers fitted by www.comand.co.uk
I take it you are familiar with the vaccine adverse event reporting system or VAERS. Is this what you base your statement of no major side effects on may i ask? The UK as far as i know has no equivalent reporting system.

When I got my shot, I did get a form with a QR code pointing to a 'yellow card' for reporting side effects. So there's clearly a system in place to collect side-effects data. I don't know what the system that the NHS in the UK are using is called, but I don't think the data collected will be held from the public.

But let me understand this right - are you in favour or opposed to vaccination? You have never confirmed or denied whether you will personally accept a vaccine when offered to you (and, incidentally, you haven't confirmed or denied if you believe in any of the various so-called 'conspiracy theories' behind the vaccination programme). Of, course, it is perfectly understandable if you do not wish to share this information with other forum members, but it would be helpful to know where you're coming from, and it will allow us to better-understabd the context when reading your posts.

As for me... well, I have been offered the vaccine and accepted, and no I don't believe in any of the so-called 'conspiracy theories.

EDIT: just saw SW18's post.
 

markjay

MB Master
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
32,896
Location
London
Car
W204 C180 Executive SE 2013 Automatic / COMAND NTG4.7 and Morel speakers fitted by www.comand.co.uk
Interesting, thanks for the link. The difference between the USA and the UK then is the adverse reaction data is open to the public in the USA and not in the UK.

This is from the UK NHS Yellow Card website:

'If necessary, we may take action to ensure that the medicine is used in a way which minimises risk, and maximises benefits to the patient. We might include details of a new side effect in the product information, reduce the dose to be used, or give out warnings about groups of patients who should not be given the medicine. In rare circumstances, we may need to withdraw a medicine from the market, when we believe that the risks of a medicine are greater than its potential benefits.'

What makes you think the NHS' Yellow Card system is less transparent that other countries' systems?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom