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Crisis in F1 ....

Mercedes already have a foot in both camps with Formula e so may be it's only a matter of time.

While no doubt all manufacturers were cheating VW have a more public case to answer and less of a motorsport image to lose so perhaps it's no great surprise that they are abandoning support for internal combustion engines. I wouldn't have thought the other manufacturers are under quite the same pressure to appear green. But then I also believe we are quite some way off the universal adoption of EV's too.
 
I'm all for the adoption of electric. Especially if it means many petrolheads and enthusiasts can enjoy the ICE for many more years.

I have a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV commercial for work use and the lack of scale and seriousness the govt and all related suppliers to support the move towards electric support is comical at best. If you have a Tesla you have half a chance but the scale is still woefully lacking. If you don't have a Tesla the infrastructure and support is not even up to the heady levels of comical!

If the shift toward.electrification in Motorsport helps the shift and support for electrification it has to be a good thing.

I occasionally drive into London to customers to conduct works and cannot use public transport as have to carry too much stuff. I often park in a car park in W1, CitiPark, Conduit Street. There are 5 Tesla bays that were all in use and 3 generic electric bays again all in use. The connector is a 16a commando socket that no electric car I know on the planet is built with. It is not free to park and the discount and encouragement to use and park an electric vehicle is laughable. Instead of being £25 to park it is £24. It never automatically is reduced and I have to email their CS to get them to refund me £1.

Anything that makes the shift faster and wider supported has to be a good thing. F1 cars don't sound like they used to anymore so if they were fully electric I'm not sure I would be so fussed.
 
No surprise that VW will never enter F1, that has been their stance for many years. They have had what they feel is much better value at Le Mans, within rally championships and recently at Pikes Peak.
I retired from Bentley Motorsport a couple of years ago and their motorsport director retired this summer.
He really had his ear to the ground in all things VW and knew what was going on long before most.
Could be pure coincidence....but then again maybe not?
 
I'm surprised F1 can't move to electric vehicles - that article in the op suggested Formula E had that sewn up and F1 couldn't.

F1 cars don't sound like they used to anymore so if they were fully electric I'm not sure I would be so fussed.

I'm not a huge F1 fan anyway as I prefer Touring Cars which I can relate slightly more to.

But that's very true. Losing what the F1 cars currently have sound-wise is no great loss.
 
At this years Le Man were they demonstrating any electric-powered vehicles? I note that prior to this iconic race they actually had a hydrogen-powered car doing a couple of laps.

Formula E to me sounds like an oversized Scalextric race and it leaves me cold. One race was enough. Oh to hear the noise of the old V8 or V10 engines but sadly it is just not plain fashionable to want these engines :( but until aircraft stop over-flying our cities, we will EVER become carbon neutral even if we banned all ICE vehicles.

Keep Formula 1 and let's stop pretending we can save the Earth by all using battery or even rubber-band powered vehicles :)
 
Apparently Dekra are touting an HFC race series. HYRAZE League

Not sure how that's going to work out TBH. Currently(!) it's just a flashy website.

There's a typically acrimonious thread on PH about HFC passenger cars. Kicked off by an owner asking if anyone had been able to get any H2 recently as his car has been stuck on the drive since March (IIRC) as he cannot get any fill-ups anywhere.

I wouldn't advocate reading said thread particularly, but it's the usual thing of the single main proponent refusing to accept some uncomfortable basic truths about H2. It ain't green at scale and won't be for a very, very, very long time, if ever. It's horribly inefficient compared to just charging batteries (factor of 3 on a good day) and the infrastructure for it doesn't really exist. Check out the available filling stations in the UK for example, and how many are actually open at the moment, and how many are actually, genuinely, operating on 'green' power.

Maybe one day in the far future...but not just yet.
 
Apparently Dekra are touting an HFC race series. HYRAZE League

Not sure how that's going to work out TBH. Currently(!) it's just a flashy website.

There's a typically acrimonious thread on PH about HFC passenger cars. Kicked off by an owner asking if anyone had been able to get any H2 recently as his car has been stuck on the drive since March (IIRC) as he cannot get any fill-ups anywhere.

I wouldn't advocate reading said thread particularly, but it's the usual thing of the single main proponent refusing to accept some uncomfortable basic truths about H2. It ain't green at scale and won't be for a very, very, very long time, if ever. It's horribly inefficient compared to just charging batteries (factor of 3 on a good day) and the infrastructure for it doesn't really exist. Check out the available filling stations in the UK for example, and how many are actually open at the moment, and how many are actually, genuinely, operating on 'green' power.

Maybe one day in the far future...but not just yet.
It would be foolish to disagree with a truth that is all so clear but we are also told that in a few years time batteries for cars will be much, much smaller and much more powerful so for those folk that are buying electric cars now, are they stuck with them when in a few years time they might be 'dinosaurs'.

There are any number of scientists that point out how electric vehicles are certainly not the carbon-friendly answer folks are looking for when everything about producing these vehicles is taken into account

What about we try to improve the technology that gets completely rid of dangerous fumes emitted by our ICE vehicles, formula 1 cars? I have no idea how but surely that is why we have scientists and if there is one thing for sure, this planet will not be running out of oil any time soon. now
 
@glojo It's not so much a fear of running out of oil, it's more a question of concern about the impact of the waste products. Hasn't escaped my notice that there's something of a head of steam getting going in that direction now.

Personally, I think oil is too valuable a resource to be just burning it - it's vital for so much of our modern life, not just transport.

The whole-life environmental impact of ICE vs BEV has been done to death. It depends on your mileage fundamentally, and to a lesser extent than might first seem likely, the way the electricity the EV uses is generated, but unless you do very, very few miles, BEV wins. Longer term, that source of electricity used as fuel factor is going to become increasingly 'green' as it's simply cheaper to make 'green' electricity than any other method now. I was always an advocate of nuclear power, but given the latest power station is looking at a 22Bn starting price (and we just know it'll never come in on budget), sadly, nuclear is just too damned expensive.

There are ways to make 'green' fuel for ICE, but they are very complicated. I've no idea of the efficiency figures. I will take a wild stab at it though and say they don't compare favourably with just using the electricity in batteries, even allowing for making the batteries first.

I think anyone claiming a BEV is 'green' is at best being disingenuous though - no car is 'green', but some are 'greener' than others ;) The old image I used to have of EV, a car with a long mains lead out the back connected to a dirty power station, is changing to something a bit less negative as time goes by - the cable connects to a wind or solar farm a lot of the time now. Most of the year my hybrid is charged by the sun from my own solar PV array.

I quite agree that early adopters are going to get stuck with old tech...but that's always the way with anything new. If they are doing any kind of mileage, I suspect they won't care much anyway as they'll be saving money regardless. Then again, the residuals on ICE aren't that wonderful either. I've got the worst of both worlds with my hybrid - pathetically small battery capacity coupled with all the added joys of ICE servicing etc. Silly me!

I saw a figure that suggests fundamental battery technology/chemistry could theoretically allow energy density to improve by a factor of 9. Even a factor of 2 would mean BEV becomes possible for many many more users (twice the range or half the weight/size - you pick).

I don't think there's much left to do with ICE by way of cleaning it up - we've already gone too far along that path in some ways, trading one pollutant for another, and of course, adding masses of additional complexity and down-the-line problems with things like DPFs NOX sensors etc etc. which just makes the whole equation more complicated.

..and no, I'm not saying an EV is right for everyone by a long shot. May never be TBH. I know I could have one now and it would do 100% of what I need from a car. It might not do everything I want from one though, but that's a whole other thing.

I suspect I'll stick with my current hybrid until to goes wrong then scrap it and buy some hateful little EV runabout to see me out until I shuffle off this mortal coil. Sadly, my fun cars are a bit basic/raw and given I'm already 60, suspect I won't be wanting to drive them for too many more years.
 
A few of my pals now own hybrids but have bought only because of the cost of petrol.

If I lived in London or at least within the ULEZ I'd be doing similar. Every London mayor seems hellbent on the demise of a petrol or diesel car.
 
When electric vehicles are talked about, this comes to mind.
It’s bloody shameful, but far from being an EV only problem. The cobalt ends up in every device with a lithium/cobalt battery. The best we can hope to do is expose it and try to provide alternatives income sources for those forced into doing it to survive.

A lot of the EV players are trying to reduce/remove the cobalt content for the purely selfish reasons of it being rare and expensive (and embarrassing). That’ll help to reduce demand, but I frankly doubt it’ll help the poor bastards forced into mining it by hand. The problem is more the corrupt government, not the demand for any given product.
 
Apologies for perhaps drifting away from F1 and yes, F1 has gone hybrid and in the New Year I will be joining them with our very own petrol hybrid estate. Not quite F1 but will we see hybrid pace cars?

I just love my F1 and want it to be that cutting edge of technologies. I share similar views to Sir Stirling Moss, If drivers want to be paid mega bucks, then let them face the same risks as riders of the Isle of Man TT races
 
For quite a few years I’ve struggled to watch F1 but have maintained the appetite to try throughout the season, and probably managed to watch more than half of more than half of the races.

But this year I haven’t watched a single race or wanted to. I’ve discovered a passion for endurance and GT racing which makes F1 seem boring by comparison - it’s blooming fantastic.

The cars looks like their road car counterparts, the racing is close with plenty of overtaking, and every race is up for grabs for quite a few cars and drivers which makes the outcome less predictable.

The races are streamed on YouTube so accessible too - any device, any time - and at no cost. Brilliant. I must get along to a race when things open up 24h of Spa is probably the race I’d choose.
 
For quite a few years I’ve struggled to watch F1 but have maintained the appetite to try throughout the season, and probably managed to watch more than half of more than half of the races.

But this year I haven’t watched a single race or wanted to. I’ve discovered a passion for endurance and GT racing which makes F1 seem boring by comparison - it’s blooming fantastic.

The cars looks like their road car counterparts, the racing is close with plenty of overtaking, and every race is up for grabs for quite a few cars and drivers which makes the outcome less predictable.

The races are streamed on YouTube so accessible too - any device, any time - and at no cost. Brilliant. I must get along to a race when things open up 24h of Spa is probably the race I’d choose.
I'd like to go along to the Spa 24hr sometime and have always liked endurance car racing.

If you're into WEC endurance racing, you owe it to yourself to go to Le Mans at least once. Missus and I have been twice (2009 & 10), camped at the circuit. Fantastic experience both times, especially 2009 when among other things we briefly met Sir Stirling Moss on the Saturday morning.

Another event worthy of attendance is the Silverstone 6hrs. Go and stand right at the fence on the entry to the Becketts complex, then try to explain to yourself how the LMP cars get through there. Breathtaking.

Considering the substantial impact Covid has had on everything this year, I think F1 has done pretty well. Yes Mercedes and Lewis Hamilton have dominated proceedings, but there has been some good racing and points of interest through the season to date.
 

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