Daughter wants a car?

[st13phil]

Price wise I'm not sure it's that far out though?

I confess to being guilty of making that statement based on a comparison with conventional IC-engine cars of a similar size that are much cheaper, and don't have the i3's quirks. Perhaps in the EV world the price is proportionate, but as you mentioned in an earlier post (which coincides with the experience of another UK work colleague who ran a Leaf) the economics just don't add up for an EV car at the moment. I honestly fail to see almost £40k of "value" in an i3 REx with a few options.

 

[brucemillar]

I confess to being guilty of making that statement based on a comparison with conventional IC-engine cars of a similar size that are much cheaper, and don't have the i3's quirks. Perhaps in the EV world the price is proportionate, but as you mentioned in an earlier post (which coincides with the experience of another UK work colleague who ran a Leaf) the economics just don't add up for an EV car at the moment. I honestly fail to see almost £40k of "value" in an i3 REx with a few options.

.....and herein lies a big part of the problem. We have a Government and countless groups that want us to be green and follow a green agenda. But we have manufacturers knocking out cars that Mr & Mrs Average simply cannot afford to buy with economics that do not make sense. I am happy to say that we would be in the Mr & Mrs Average Class here with an Eighteen Year Old full time employed daughter in a Government backed apprenticeship, who wants to be green and wants to promote the agenda, but simply cannot afford to.

 

[st13phil]

.....and herein lies a big part of the problem. We have a Government and countless groups that want us to be green and follow a green agenda. But we have manufacturers knocking out cars that Mr & Mrs Average simply cannot afford to buy with economics that do not make sense.

When you consider that IC-engine cars have developed to where they are today over the last 120+ years, one can't help but conclude that the massive modal shift to EV's that governments and the green lobby say will happen just won't happen in the timescales that they propose. At least, not without massive pain.

I made the point in another thread that people may accept the current (no pun intended) limitations of EV's if they were cheaper than the alternative, and they may accept the higher cost of EV's if they didn't have the limitations they do, but the impossible sell is getting people to pay much more for much less. And I'm still not entirely convinced that the whole-life environmental impact of the current crop of EV's is any better than that of an IC-engined car.

We've been discussing how the i3 is one of the more practical EV's, yet even if we ignore the cost premium, my colleague told me that if driven at normal speeds to keep up with the traffic, it couldn't manage a round trip from his home to Schipol Airport and back - a total of less than 240km (150miles) without refuelling. Hmm... Some way still to go on that one, methinks.

 

[Doodle]

I confess to being guilty of making that statement based on a comparison with conventional IC-engine cars of a similar size that are much cheaper, and don't have the i3's quirks. Perhaps in the EV world the price is proportionate, but as you mentioned in an earlier post (which coincides with the experience of another UK work colleague who ran a Leaf) the economics just don't add up for an EV car at the moment. I honestly fail to see almost £40k of "value" in an i3 REx with a few options.

I agree, in comparison to an IC car the sums just don't bear out, except for the EV evangelists who are willing to pay for their spot in the holy land or those brave/foolish enough to take a punt on a used EV.

They *did*, as that's how I ended up in mine. The car and battery leases combined were less than the monthly fuel bill on the snotty old commuter Volvo I was running. Unfortunately then RCI realised they were taking a bath on the residuals, plus new tech means an excuse to put up the prices.

 

[brucemillar]

I agree, in comparison to an IC car the sums just don't bear out, except for the EV evangelists who are willing to pay for their spot in the holy land or those brave/foolish enough to take a punt on a used EV.

They *did*, as that's how I ended up in mine. The car and battery leases combined were less than the monthly fuel bill on the snotty old commuter Volvo I was running. Unfortunately then RCI realised they were taking a bath on the residuals, plus new tech means an excuse to put up the prices.

..Then we have the third grouping who buy an EV as a "status symbol" something to use at the weekend or on the short commute - charge at lunch - commute back home. Then climb into the Mercedes GL and go for a "proper drive".

I recall watching Clarkson doing a piece on the i8 which he loved in every aspect but absolutely panned it's contradictions and almost comedic range. I also love the i8's style. Stick a dirty great V8 in the back and I bet they would sell out in no time.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

.....and herein lies a big part of the problem. We have a Government and countless groups that want us to be green and follow a green agenda. But we have manufacturers knocking out cars that Mr & Mrs Average simply cannot afford to buy with economics that do not make sense. I am happy to say that we would be in the Mr & Mrs Average Class here with an Eighteen Year Old full time employed daughter in a Government backed apprenticeship, who wants to be green and wants to promote the agenda, but simply cannot afford to.

Change takes time. No-one, apart from your daughter, is expecting to switch immediately to the latest tech. No-one's even certain what version of the new tech will actually work. (The old ones on here will remember that motor manufacturers (including Rover) once seriously believed that future cars would be jet turbine powered)

Like wind farms we simply have to experiment and see how it goes. And we'll get there.

It's taken us over a hundred years with the petrol engine to get us here, it won't change overnight. Governments and car companies are talking change but they're only talking change initially to hybrid new cars, and they're well aware that existing cars stay around for ten years after manufacture.

"Do the math," look at the real costs of running a vehicle, both financial and environmental, and you'll soon be able to show her that running an already manufactured / made, five year old small engine vehicle will be FAR less wasteful than a gadgetty new, high risk, latest tech vehicle shipping direct from Japan.

If nothing else, it's an important lesson for an 18 year old to come to terms with the real costs of "doing things" as an adult.

.

 

[grober]

Toyota Yaris Hybrid: Half-pint composite for the urban jungle

 

[brucemillar]

Telepathy? This appeared in my local paper today. Interestingly if says what we say on here: Range is the biggest deciding factor and some dealers/manufacturers claims may be misleading.

Kent sees surge in electric cars

 

[Doodle]

When looking at the cost of purchasing an eco-friendly car Mr Newton said the monthly payments are now the same as a conventionally-powered car.

I suggest we all head down to Mr Newton's dealership, so we can buy Leafs at a knockdown price. Either that or have him admit he's a big fat liar.

 

[alabbasi]

.....and herein lies a big part of the problem. We have a Government and countless groups that want us to be green and follow a green agenda.

It's a racket used to raise taxes on the majority using the excuse that it's for the common good and offer a break on some obscure alternative.

Diesels are out now because everyone is driving them. When everyone moves to electric, there will be new taxes imposed on them claiming that the batteries are bad and everyone should be driving hydrogen or some other technology that nobody owns.