D
Deleted member 6183
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Maybe have it serviced at an Indie?
Dealer system destroying remapped ECU's
- Thread starter Lee44
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The car is mine. Even if it was PCP etc then the Dealer has no consent to pass any data of mine to any third party.
Someone mentioned if I authorised the mod.. ? Do you mean the remap, if so.. Of course I did! If you mean the work / software update by dealer.. Then no that's not even been done yet. My 1st post says what the concern is. It's booked in to MB for a recall and software update.
Yes service at indie is the choice it's just the recalls I can't get away from.
Someone mentioned if I authorised the mod.. ? Do you mean the remap, if so.. Of course I did! If you mean the work / software update by dealer.. Then no that's not even been done yet. My 1st post says what the concern is. It's booked in to MB for a recall and software update.
Yes service at indie is the choice it's just the recalls I can't get away from.
Putting aside all the do's and don'ts, the right's and wrong's
The only concern of mine here is will the Dealer systems make the ECU unusable if it detects flags such as remap on these new ECU's, as I've been informed it will.
I'ts concerning for others out there too if there's some truth in it, as I'm not the first to have a brand new car remapped and certainly won't be the last.
Taking on board from some posts on here, I'm more reassured it won't destroy it.
I still believe this could be a grey area and I guess I won't really know until it goes in for its recall and update.
Maybe I'm just better informing them it's mapped and not to do anything that would jeopardise the ECU. Sod the warranty part of it.
The only concern of mine here is will the Dealer systems make the ECU unusable if it detects flags such as remap on these new ECU's, as I've been informed it will.
I'ts concerning for others out there too if there's some truth in it, as I'm not the first to have a brand new car remapped and certainly won't be the last.
Taking on board from some posts on here, I'm more reassured it won't destroy it.
I still believe this could be a grey area and I guess I won't really know until it goes in for its recall and update.
Maybe I'm just better informing them it's mapped and not to do anything that would jeopardise the ECU. Sod the warranty part of it.
PobodY
MB Enthusiast
We both know that most dealers would still try to argue that it's your fault and that they're not paying for it.
I agree that if you did take it to court, you'd win. - I just think you might have to make that threat before they capitulate and stop asking you to pay for it.
D
Deletedmember130310
Guest
Why would a software update for Audio 20 and lighting contols have any impact on the engine managmemt code (which presumably is what has been modified)
I would expect audio and lighting code to be in separate modules - MB wouldn't maintain endless versions of the audio and other sub routines for every engine variation,...
I would expect audio and lighting code to be in separate modules - MB wouldn't maintain endless versions of the audio and other sub routines for every engine variation,...
grober
MB Master
I think you would have to know the exact terms and conditions of any agreement you enter into [ either by signing a permission document on presenting the car or tacit agreement covered by the act of on booking online ] each time you present the car for servicing? - Does anybody read these? I imagine it will include a duty to divulge any modifications from standard you have made to the car prior to presentation? This would be cover them for working on Mercedes vehicles both in and out of warranty?
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Dealers cannot tell that new cars have been remapped unless you go on a road test with the datalogger running and then after your drive cycle carefully compare the actual data to standard readings from another car (that has also been run on the datalogger) to see of there is any differences, you would really have to go looking for it to find it which tbh i dont think any of the workshop staff would really go to that extremes as it would work against them financially
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Possibly, though STAR shows 'current software version', and also most likely runs some sort of CHECKSUM (although this may apply only to the new software?).
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Think of it like this, dealer goes to run an update on the pcm and it hasnt been logged properly on the (we call it the wasp at jlr) next time that vehicle comes in it flags up its due an update (that has been done already) so its done again, so now has this vehicle had 1 remap and an update? No its just had the same update done twice
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Can’t you just tell them that it has been mapped and not to reset it ?
I agree whole heartedly with this. I do think you get used to the cars power increase and lose sight of the difference over time that it had made. I've been caught on the hop a few times at certain rev ranges and gears. I think it's about learning where the curves peak and how to get the best out of the torque. I know it's only a 250d, but since the remap off the mark in sports+ is significantly different. Iast year I had a new A6 Avant 3.0tdi remapped and can honestly say in certain areas there doesn't feel much difference if you get it right. Yet get caught on the hop and you've egg on your face
Maybe there's truth in it's all about the driver ha!
If I get it right off a roundabout onto let's say a bypass or motorway using the paddles then it's there I think I can see the difference in the torque.
The mpg I cant really comment on positively. Sat at 60mph on motorway for a good while.. Yes 51mpg.
Start messing around and it's average is 27mpg.
Ahhh I see.. So it's just a flag that shows up. Doesn't actually inform them it's been actually remapped?
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Yes, it just shows its been flashed X number of times. There will be a version number logged but the remap could simply be called the same as the original.
Dealers aren't going to actively look for what the changes are but equally they aren't going to avoid applying whatever update they've been asked to do.
Only if the car is involved in a high cost accident, where an insurer is likely to have to pay out big time will an investigator read the code to discover if a non manufacturers map is installed.
As long as you have disclosed the mod you've nothing to worry about. I'd inform the dealership so they're aware and not to update the ECU.
Yugguy
MB Enthusiast
Hang on. If you tell the dealer now that it's been mapped they will withdraw the warranty for any engine based issues. They may also try to argue that as the ECU links to all the other computers in the car they won't warranty those either.
Depends which Dealer you use.
I doubt that all engine warranty would be void by the Dealer unless MB UK sent a master tech down to investigate further i.e. a blown engine or gear box.
It is in the Dealer's intrest to carry out warranty work.
Declaring remap to Dealership will not automatically void the warranty unless it can be proved in the event of a claim that the remap was directly responsible for any subsequent defect or component failure.
I doubt that all engine warranty would be void by the Dealer unless MB UK sent a master tech down to investigate further i.e. a blown engine or gear box.
It is in the Dealer's intrest to carry out warranty work.
Declaring remap to Dealership will not automatically void the warranty unless it can be proved in the event of a claim that the remap was directly responsible for any subsequent defect or component failure.
Yugguy
MB Enthusiast
I've heard a lot of recent talk about remaps not being so good on modern engines.
Ford looked at using the 1.5 3 cylinder in the upcoming Focus ST, but they could not safely get more than the 200bhp it has in the Fiesta.
Ford looked at using the 1.5 3 cylinder in the upcoming Focus ST, but they could not safely get more than the 200bhp it has in the Fiesta.
Gazwould
MB Enthusiast
That's because it's at the upper end of tuning with it's current hardware , unlike old BMW 525D which is a detuned 3.0 D - straight to Stage 2 for Stage 1 530D figures .
Yugguy
MB Enthusiast
Those "2.5" engines also had different, restrictive inlet manifolds than the 3.0 which were worth swapping. It was a more or less straight swap.
400ixl
MB Enthusiast
Manufacturers have to
Not sure where you got that. There are already maps out for that engine which take it to the 230-240 bhp regions. Ford have to stick to safe limits based on things like what is the worst fuel that can be put in it, what is almost indestructible for 60k miles etc. Tuners can map it to be 97 RON fuel minimum (as opposed to 87 RON Ford must consider).
That's before you start to change physical parts of the engine such as the Turbo, exhaust etc.
On the original topic of this thread. No, dealers do not destroy ECU's that have been remapped. If they need to apply an update to a map then they may well over write the remap, but will not destroy the ECU. The flashing is done in such a way that it actually checks it can be loaded properly before going ahead and writing it.
There is a small risk in something going wrong, but that applies to any ECU whether remapped or not. They would be responsible for any issues here whether it was remapped or not.
As others have mentioned, the modern car has multiple brains which are used to control different parts of the cars functionality. From what you have said yours is going in for I can't see any reason for them to need to update the engine ECU.
You could ask them what modules will get updated as part of the job. Provided it does not include the engine ECU, you can instruct them to not update that without first seeking your permission and then you can decided whether the benefits outweigh to loos of the remap.
On the warranty side, yes a remap will partially invalidate your warranty, but only for elements that could be shown to be linked. So for example a burnt out cylinder through under fuelling may well be refused, but a failed starter motor could not be.
Not sure where you got that. There are already maps out for that engine which take it to the 230-240 bhp regions. Ford have to stick to safe limits based on things like what is the worst fuel that can be put in it, what is almost indestructible for 60k miles etc. Tuners can map it to be 97 RON fuel minimum (as opposed to 87 RON Ford must consider).
That's before you start to change physical parts of the engine such as the Turbo, exhaust etc.
On the original topic of this thread. No, dealers do not destroy ECU's that have been remapped. If they need to apply an update to a map then they may well over write the remap, but will not destroy the ECU. The flashing is done in such a way that it actually checks it can be loaded properly before going ahead and writing it.
There is a small risk in something going wrong, but that applies to any ECU whether remapped or not. They would be responsible for any issues here whether it was remapped or not.
As others have mentioned, the modern car has multiple brains which are used to control different parts of the cars functionality. From what you have said yours is going in for I can't see any reason for them to need to update the engine ECU.
You could ask them what modules will get updated as part of the job. Provided it does not include the engine ECU, you can instruct them to not update that without first seeking your permission and then you can decided whether the benefits outweigh to loos of the remap.
On the warranty side, yes a remap will partially invalidate your warranty, but only for elements that could be shown to be linked. So for example a burnt out cylinder through under fuelling may well be refused, but a failed starter motor could not be.
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