Dear Deidre I’m conservative and I drive a Mercedes

MercedesDriver

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I like to think of my self as a very Liberal, open minded tech loving middle aged man, but I just can’t understand wtf is going on with current automotive industry. You can call me confused and even lost. Movies I’m watching on a TV or at the cinema, video games I’m playing on a PS, music I’m listening on my HiFi and virtualy socialising on my mobile phone-I don’t want and I don’t need to have all that in my car. The car is for DRIVING.
All I was ever interested in when looking to buy a car were these few, for me, very important technical details:
-engine size in ccm
-engine power in bhp
-engine torque in Nm
-size of the boot in ccm
-leg room at the rear in cm (or “ I can calculate it on my pocket calculator)
For the bhp and Nm I always used to look for a diagram so I can see how long and how steep they are and how fast and sudden both drop and at which rpm. But nowadays it all seems to be irrelevant, all cars look the same and all that matters is if the car has AirPlay this,Android that, Touch or no Touch, Wireless,GSM,GPS,TPS,MPS,HDD and the full £hit of other acronyms with no relation to driving but more with children toys.
Basically what I’m saying is that I’m dreading of looking for a new car since I know I will be utterly disappointed and will probably buy something old and analogue.
Who makes cars for us conservatives?
 

Bobby Dazzler

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I like to think of my self as a very Liberal, open minded tech loving middle aged man, but I just can’t understand wtf is going on with current automotive industry. You can call me confused and even lost. Movies I’m watching on a TV or at the cinema, video games I’m playing on a PS, music I’m listening on my HiFi and virtualy socialising on my mobile phone-I don’t want and I don’t need to have all that in my car. The car is for DRIVING.
All I was ever interested in when looking to buy a car were these few, for me, very important technical details:
-engine size in ccm
-engine power in bhp
-engine torque in Nm
-size of the boot in ccm
-leg room at the rear in cm (or “ I can calculate it on my pocket calculator)
For the bhp and Nm I always used to look for a diagram so I can see how long and how steep they are and how fast and sudden both drop and at which rpm. But nowadays it all seems to be irrelevant, all cars look the same and all that matters is if the car has AirPlay this,Android that, Touch or no Touch, Wireless,GSM,GPS,TPS,MPS,HDD and the full £hit of other acronyms with no relation to driving but more with children toys.
Basically what I’m saying is that I’m dreading of looking for a new car since I know I will be utterly disappointed and will probably buy something old and analogue.
Who makes cars for us conservatives?
I wouldn’t worry. Most cars don’t have TV/DVDs, they’re blooming expensive. Few cars have Car Play or Android Auto, but if you have a smartphone the. you’ll be glad if your new car does have them. I’m not aware of any cars which offer games as standard or as an option.

Good news is the vast majority still have an engine with capacity measured by swept volume, with published power and torque data, along with internal dimensions and capacities. The king is dead, long live the king.
 

Rorywquin

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He who has the most features wins
or
He who has the most gadgets wins
or
He who has the most hp wins
or
He who has the most Nm wins
or
He who has the most cylinders wins
or
He who drives a Tesla wins

......choose your poison. The marketers have all the bases covered.

All designed in wind tunnels and loaded with gadgets that should not be touched while driving - go figure.
 

Petrol Pete

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The first time I picked up a hire car that had a 'screen' on the dash within days I became really peed off that every time I touched the volume control on the steering wheel a bloody great volume bar appeared on the screen to tell me that I was adjusting the volume. WTF ! yes I know , this was some years ago when this crap was new..it's funny, it had such an effect on me that I can remember it now but do not even remember what car it was.

At the time I couldn't help thinking which drick head thought that was a good feature.

Being forced to adjust anything via a small touch screen while driving ? .....downright dangerous.
 
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MercedesDriver

MercedesDriver

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Most important criteria of all:

DOES MY WIFE LIKE THE COLOUR!
Oh, no, in my case it's much more complex. What is the distance between the passenger seat back rest and the B pillar and how comfortable the B pillar moulding is? Those are main Mrs criteria for napping while I'm driving and I was so pleased to hear that the current S212 provides the best comfort in that aspect.
Dacia Duster sounds up your street ;)
Not bad at all. :thumb:
 

Bobby Dazzler

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The first time I picked up a hire car that had a 'screen' on the dash within days I became really peed off that every time I touched the volume control on the steering wheel a bloody great volume bar appeared on the screen to tell me that I was adjusting the volume. WTF ! yes I know , this was some years ago when this crap was new..it's funny, it had such an effect on me that I can remember it now but do not even remember what car it was.

At the time I couldn't help thinking which drick head thought that was a good feature.

Being forced to adjust anything via a small touch screen while driving ? .....downright dangerous.
I agree for controls used whilst driving such as lights, heating, wipers, etc. However, for other functions - such as changing bass/treble, changing interior illumination - then whether it's a physical button to push or knob to turn - it will be small, fiddly and seldom used, and so will be just as much distraction as a "soft" control on a touch screen. Voice recognition is becoming so good now that touching hard or soft buttons for non-critical controls should no longer be required.
 
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MercedesDriver

MercedesDriver

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I agree for controls used whilst driving such as lights, heating, wipers, etc. However, for other functions - such as changing bass/treble, changing interior illumination - then whether it's a physical button to push or knob to turn - it will be small, fiddly and seldom used, and so will be just as much distraction as a "soft" control on a touch screen. Voice recognition is becoming so good now that touching hard or soft buttons for non-critical controls should no longer be required.
On short local commute journeys it can make sense but what to do with voice control, not to mention touch screen, while driving for 12 hours per day and all passengers are a sleep? I don't want to wake them all up just because I'm arguing with Gemma or John to adjust AC or change the music. Touch screen, I can't even imagine myself playing with it while driving 110 or 120 mph on autobahn.
 

Cherrypd

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For me colour is king. The rest follows. I hired a car for a business trip (Audi A3) some years ago. Drove away and came to a stop and car stalls. Got in a bit of a panic as you do and rang my hubby. He suggested it was this new start/stop feature. I wasn’t aware of it at all:wallbash:
 

Rorywquin

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For me colour is king. The rest follows. I hired a car for a business trip (Audi A3) some years ago. Drove away and came to a stop and car stalls. Got in a bit of a panic as you do and rang my hubby. He suggested it was this new start/stop feature. I wasn’t aware of it at all:wallbash:
So a (insert your colour choice) Dacia Duster for you? :)
 

MJJ

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In my view, this rise of in-car technology is because it is the most realistic differentiation area still available to the manufacturers.

Now that emissions standards are so challenging to meet, and the manufacture penalties for exceeding them fleet wide so high, the manufacturers are all arriving at the same powertrain essentially. 500cc friction reducing pistons, common for cost of scale as they are expensive - so everything is now 1,500cc triple or 2,000cc four. Add boost, or electric assistance as the budget enables, and customer torque demand requires.

As aero drag is so key to emissions, everything needs to be slippery - ultimately restricting what the designers can get away with. Crash structures are hugely expensive to engineer, so again, designers are having much narrower windows of differentiation to play with.

This leaves in-car technology and interior luxury as the remaining freedom area to entice, market and sell to customers. Helpfully, the younger generations are very keen to pay for this suite of features.

Under-stressed, multi-cylinder, characterful powertrains are no longer viable at anywhere near mass volume levels. A 400hp naturally aspirated V8 produces twice (generalising) the emissions of a 400hp turbo 4 cylinder at the most used throttle openings, uses twice the fuel, and is ultimately (and in my mind correctly) wasteful of natural resources. To sell one characterful 300g/km CO2 engine, the manufacturer also has to sell forty 90g/km CO2 engines to hit their fleet average of 95g/km.

For those of us who prioritise performance, torque, and dynamics over interiors and technology, electric power is our only lifeline.

Martin.
 

190

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I broadly support the OP's sentiments. Cars are for driving and the toys should be of secondary importance and ideally optional. Unfortunately that will very rarely be the case. I don't use half the toys in the 10 year old car I already have. I just drive it and am grateful for the electronics that makes it drive well, everything else is superfluous.

For those of us who prioritise performance, torque, and dynamics over interiors and technology, electric power is our only lifeline.
I'm not so sure EV's will be our salvation when it comes to simplicity. A recent example of how things have got out of hand is the software problems that caused a considerable delay in the launch of the ID3. The reason was that this car contains 10 million lines of software code which inevitably means it will be full of bugs. Even now I suspect the new owners will be finding more. VW's stated strategy appears be that they wish to catch up with and emulate Tesla.

Analysis: How Volkswagen is tackling new software challenges | Autocar
 

Bobby Dazzler

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On short local commute journeys it can make sense but what to do with voice control, not to mention touch screen, while driving for 12 hours per day and all passengers are a sleep? I don't want to wake them all up just because I'm arguing with Gemma or John to adjust AC or change the music. Touch screen, I can't even imagine myself playing with it while driving 110 or 120 mph on autobahn.
It's a very specific use case, and I would cross that bridge when you come to it.
 

zipdip

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Well I sort of agree,I hardly use any of the extras on the car,even to the point of cruise control on my S,but we all look at cars that are loaded with supposed goodies,this morning I looked on ebay at a Black W221 S320 that was loaded 2008 £7500 and 76 grand on the clock the ad said immaculate and it looked it,thats some bargain for anybody looking for a w221,but I thought I would never use some of the extras,I suppose I get all the entertainment I need from the local radio station,and watching various loony drivers on the road.
 
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MercedesDriver

MercedesDriver

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In my view, this rise of in-car technology is because it is the most realistic differentiation area still available to the manufacturers.

Now that emissions standards are so challenging to meet, and the manufacture penalties for exceeding them fleet wide so high, the manufacturers are all arriving at the same powertrain essentially. 500cc friction reducing pistons, common for cost of scale as they are expensive - so everything is now 1,500cc triple or 2,000cc four. Add boost, or electric assistance as the budget enables, and customer torque demand requires.

As aero drag is so key to emissions, everything needs to be slippery - ultimately restricting what the designers can get away with. Crash structures are hugely expensive to engineer, so again, designers are having much narrower windows of differentiation to play with.

This leaves in-car technology and interior luxury as the remaining freedom area to entice, market and sell to customers. Helpfully, the younger generations are very keen to pay for this suite of features.

Under-stressed, multi-cylinder, characterful powertrains are no longer viable at anywhere near mass volume levels. A 400hp naturally aspirated V8 produces twice (generalising) the emissions of a 400hp turbo 4 cylinder at the most used throttle openings, uses twice the fuel, and is ultimately (and in my mind correctly) wasteful of natural resources. To sell one characterful 300g/km CO2 engine, the manufacturer also has to sell forty 90g/km CO2 engines to hit their fleet average of 95g/km.

For those of us who prioritise performance, torque, and dynamics over interiors and technology, electric power is our only lifeline.

Martin.
Until electric power enables me 500+ miles of uninterrupted high speed motoring with no recharge (preferably up to 5min time) it's not a car for me. It's a toy. And tbh my thinking is that exactly EV drives this ridiculousness of in-car entertainment because the motoring performance is nothing to brag with except "Ludicrous mode" or whatever it's called, which again you can use only for, what, 15 minutes.
 

Will

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You’ve got to move with the times guys :cool:

Funny how everyone is on their smartphone/tablet/computer arguing about technology, not a using a slate or reading a monthly magazine instead ;) :)

Bring back steam cars I say :D
 

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