Defensive Driving?

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

markjay

MB Master
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
46,763
Location
London
Car
2022 Hyundai IONIQ 5 RWD / 2016 Suzuki Vitara AWD

What do people think? Should driver Damon Campion have been more focused on the road ahead and anticipating the hazardous situation?

I am not referring to the legal aspect or the insurance aspect. I am thinking of driving in self-preservation mode. Is it unreasonable to request that drivers pay attention and spot hazards well in advance?
 
Clearly she is fault because she pulled out into oncoming traffic,the fact that she forgot what side of the road she was driving on is concerning to be frank. However, perhaps he could have anticipated the junction better and reduced speed to to deal with the potential hazard of a vehicle pulling out in front of him without warning. Without seeing the layout of the road where the accident occurred it is difficult to comment. I do think a lot of accidents today are caused by drivers not anticipating potential situations when approaching hazards such as junctions and potentially could have been a non-event had they done so.
 
Clearly she is fault because she pulled out into oncoming traffic,the fact that she forgot what side of the road she was driving on is concerning to be frank. However, perhaps he could have anticipated the junction better and reduced speed to to deal with the potential hazard of a vehicle pulling out in front of him without warning. Without seeing the layout of the road where the accident occurred it is difficult to comment. I do think a lot of accidents today are caused by drivers not anticipating potential situations when approaching hazards such as junctions and potentially could have been a non-event had they done so.
Totally agree with you a lot of drivers you watch just don't think ahead and are prepared for the unexpected, for instance where I live you come off the estate onto a B road which is on a hill and the junction is on a slight bend the road speed is 30mph the junction is signposted in a triangle to pre warn drivers. Coming out at onto the B road you can't see further than say 150 yards so just as blind coming down the road, but the speed they come down is well over 30mph so have on site of a vehicle pulling out have no chance of stopping there have been a few collisions in the past.
 
As per the Roadcraft handbook, 'you must be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear'.
That seems what these people don't understand.
 
As per the Roadcraft handbook, 'you must be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear'.
He probably could, but if some idiot pulls out from where they shouldn’t you will go into them. No amount of defensive driving or hazard awareness can compensate for the unusual.

As drivers, we anticipate that the other vehicles are under sane control, and will more or less follow the rules of the road.

On a different point, it’s a shame that with all her income she cannot afford non ripped clothes.
 
He probably could, but if some idiot pulls out from where they shouldn’t you will go into them. No amount of defensive driving or hazard awareness can compensate for the unusual.

As drivers, we anticipate that the other vehicles are under sane control, and will more or less follow the rules of the road.

On a different point, it’s a shame that with all her income she cannot afford non ripped clothes.
Myself I drive as everyone else is an idiot, that's my defensive driving.
 
Myself I drive as everyone else is an idiot, that's my defensive driving.
Sounds right and safe to me. Two rules of driving my old dad taught me are:
1. All an indicator or a light flash mean are their electrics work.
2. If you’re going to hit someone or something, try to do it slowly.
 
He probably could, but if some idiot pulls out from where they shouldn’t you will go into them. No amount of defensive driving or hazard awareness can compensate for the unusual.

As drivers, we anticipate that the other vehicles are under sane control, and will more or less follow the rules of the road.

On a different point, it’s a shame that with all her income she cannot afford non ripped clothes.
We should be anticipating hazards at all times and we should not necessarily assume that other vehicles around us are under 'sane control' and will follow the rules. We should be prepared for the unexpected. For example, had the victim anticipated junction and slightly dropped off his speed on approach (even if it appears to be clear), this would have given him more time to look and it is possible that he may of been able to stop in the distance he could see to be clear, therefore avoiding a collision. If the junction was not visible from his viewpoint, then it is all the more reason to reduce speed. The problem is many people do not look beyond the end of their bonnet when driving. If you look further up the road enough, you will likely be able to spot a situation developing before you even arrive at it. In this case, if it was an open junction, he may have seen the Tesla at the junction and the driver looking the wrong way and anticipate that she may pull out. I'm not suggesting the victim was in any way to blame for this accident, this lies squarely with the lady. But I wouldn't be surpised if there was more the victim could have done which may have resulted in a very different outcome, again without seeing the road layout it is difficult to comment further.
 
We used to live near a NSL dual carriageway that had signs warning of deer. Always wondered what the point of that was - in the dark you'd have had to drive at 25-30 mph (which nobody did, of course) to stand any chance of avoiding or stopping if one ran out. If this was a significant risk then why the 70 mph limit? :dk:

The 'forgetting which country she was in' defence is pretty dubious. The crash was in September, and she'd been in Europe in 'the summer' so presumably she'd been back and driving in the UK for some time. Even if she'd just come off the ferry/Eurotunnel (which would surely have been mentioned if this had been the case) she'd already done 170 miles or so on the way to Wiltshire.
 
She's a wrong un alright.
A high earning Russian born blond woman with a foreign name, a £2m house, an EV, and the temerity to spend time in Europe! Go get her Daily Mail! Jeez, we're lucky to have such socially committed journalism.
 
I think that most drivers probably do anticipate other drivers' actions, and similar accidents are avoided every day.

The one time someone wasn't focused on the road ahead... and next we read about the accident in the Daily Mail.
 
We should be anticipating hazards at all times and we should not necessarily assume that other vehicles around us are under 'sane control' and will follow the rules. We should be prepared for the unexpected. For example, had the victim anticipated junction and slightly dropped off his speed on approach (even if it appears to be clear), this would have given him more time to look and it is possible that he may of been able to stop in the distance he could see to be clear, therefore avoiding a collision.

Whilst I agree to some extent, the woman was (apparently) looking the wrong way so could have pulled out at any point ... even when he was a very short distance away (with a completely clear road in front of him).

It would also be possible for any car parked by the side of the road to randomly and unexpectedly pull out ... so in theory you should slow to a walking pace before passing, just in case.

You can't act on every single potential hazard or you'd never get anywhere.
 
We used to live near a NSL dual carriageway that had signs warning of deer. Always wondered what the point of that was - in the dark you'd have had to drive at 25-30 mph (which nobody did, of course) to stand any chance of avoiding or stopping if one ran out. If this was a significant risk then why the 70 mph limit? :dk:

Signs are still there :)

So a clear straight NSL dual carriageway stretching off in front of you .. how fast do you go?

cap1.JPGcap2.JPG
 
I've never forgotten the advice I was given by my pro driving instructor on my first ever driving lesson - in 1968!! Look at every driver/car you can see and think "what is the most stupid thing each driver/car could do next - and be prepared, because I guarantee one day one will"!! Held me in good stead so far, since 1968 I've had 1 at fault RTA in about 1971, a couple of RTA's since but not held to be at fault, so well done that driving instructor!! To this day I still use his "defensive driving" advice. Annoys the hell out of my (Irish, thus talkative) wife as I'm not talkative when driving, too busy using my mirrors and eyes to see conditions in front and behind so not in the slightest interested in conversation - and ignore anything said to me while driving!
 
Whilst I agree to some extent, the woman was (apparently) looking the wrong way so could have pulled out at any point ... even when he was a very short distance away (with a completely clear road in front of him).

It would also be possible for any car parked by the side of the road to randomly and unexpectedly pull out ... so in theory you should slow to a walking pace before passing, just in case.

You can't act on every single potential hazard or you'd never get anywhere.

Of course some types of hazards cannot reasonably be anticipated or avoided. But I suspect that most can. In fact, over the years, there have been many a time when I did something stupid on the road, and yet didn't crash, simply because the other driver was alert and corrercly spotted me as a hazard.

I have no issue with how insurance - and the legal system - work, I just wish that more attention was given to the behaviour of the not-at-fault driver, to increase awareness and so that others may learn from his/her experience. And without accusations of 'blaming the victim'.
 
I've never forgotten the advice I was given by my pro driving instructor on my first ever driving lesson - in 1968!! Look at every driver/car you can see and think "what is the most stupid thing each driver/car could do next - and be prepared, because I guarantee one day one will"!! Held me in good stead so far, since 1968 I've had 1 at fault RTA in about 1971, a couple of RTA's since but not held to be at fault, so well done that driving instructor!! To this day I still use his "defensive driving" advice. Annoys the hell out of my (Irish, thus talkative) wife as I'm not talkative when driving, too busy using my mirrors and eyes to see conditions in front and behind so not in the slightest interested in conversation - and ignore anything said to me while driving!

...and even when you have a green light, drive through the junction as if you were jumping a red light ;)
 
Of course some types of hazards cannot reasonably be anticipated or avoided. But I suspect that most can. In fact, over the years, there have been many a time when I did something stupid on the road, and yet didn't crash, simply because the other driver was alert and corrercly spotted me as a hazard.

The most common/likely things can certainly be anticipated and AFAIK that's the basis for Police fast driving etc.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom