Definative explination.... Pull left

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

wheels-inmotion

Active Member
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
727
Location
Hemel Hempstead
Car
Daily hog is a Vectra
I would like to give a definitive explanation for the historic "pulling left" complaint.

We've all read, heard, experienced this condition, concluding with an official explanation from MB UK it's a "safety feature". It's not.

My field is the chassis but trust me i'm not God in this field nor do i confess to know everything, but with 30yrs in chassis calibration i can recognise a problem and offer a solution.

To the point
The reason most/ some MB's pull/ drift is the build is to perfect?? WTF most are thinking now, and what am i going on about!!

The MB chassis build is superb, tolerance's are minute allowing little future correction at the chassis in the event angles would change. In truth this is a fantastic statement since most modern cars allow for chassis corrections during the cars lifespan.

The problem
The problem is the perfectly symmetrical MB build and our roads!! As abrupt the reason reads that's it.

Solution
Level all the roads in the UK...... Well we all know that's not realistic so what now?

After year 2000 the MB chassis positions was fixed, this was more a
ease of build issue in my opinion but whatever the positions would need additional help by installing adjuster bolts to move angles.

Solution P2
There's a need to move away from the perfect MB build and off-set the chassis in order to cope with the UK's road crown. In order to do this there's two options
1: Stagger the camber positions
2: Stagger the castor positions

Stagger what's that?
The wheels geometric positions offer energy, and handling, tyre wear and all that stuff, but if the "energy" is staggered it's possible to use this inert force to belay the drift.

Options
1: Staggering camber is a dangerous option since camber controls the vehicles weight at the tyres contact patch. Camber position is a prevalent player but a violent force, not to be messed with until desperate times are required.

2: Castor... This is a difficult angle to explain because it has many duties but the one that concerns us is "directional stability". Castor angle holds a directional force that can be manipulated, stagger the castor you can change the force.

To conclude the historic complaints
As said the MB has a "surgical build" in reply to this the MB permitted tolerance's over the axle is minute 30' in most cases, this permitted disparity will not allow sufficient energy to compensate for the UK road crown. MB dealers cannot violate the registered tolerance's even though they probably know what the reason for the complaint is.

In summary
Staggering the castor within the permitted 30' in the UK won't work, it needs to be between 45' to a degree, this violates the MB tolerance's, so in truth MB Uk cannot help you.

I hope this information makes sense, my grammar construction is poor at the best of times.... Poor education i'm afraid.
 
Im going to print this and give it to all the customers who buy a car from me and then complain of it pulling left!
 
As someone who drives on mainland Europe almost as much as I do in this country, this pull to the left is not something I'd ever look to get corrected. If I did by the methods suggested in this thread then I'd have an even worse pull to the right when abroad surely?

I fully appreciate and bow to the expertise of the OP and may well even use them for wheel alignment in the future, but in my experience cars with wide tyres will always follow road imperfections and camber. There's so very few places left in this country where we could describe a road as flat and smooth that there's always going to be something to 'upset' the geometry and 'pull'.

Or am I completely off the wall? :)
 
So folks, just to add a bit of friendly reality to this...my MB dealer couldn't align the moon and the sun if you gave them the date/time of the next eclipse:doh:, not saying all dealers are bad but one my was/is. Bear in mind I'm driving a contained animal I told them the alignment was off within the first 5 minutes of driving it (before buying it), cutting a long story short...after much wasted time with MB :mad:, WIM have put all the settings within MB tolerance. I agree with WIM MB have got it right, but nearly all roads are imperfect. My approach, get everything in tolerance and see where you want to go with it. My C63 is a different animal now to drive :D - Thanks WIM.
 
Hi kamal can you please explain in greater depth how it has affected your c63 please ? thank you
 
Totally agree with kamal...mine is now within MB tolerance and tracks straight and true.

Don...basically, the car tracks straight without having a tugging feeling to the left (previously, I could feel s slight resistance and needed to put more pressure on the wheel to the right to keep the car going straight...this no longer happens).

Also, if I previously let go of the steering wheel the car pulled left straight away and would change lanes on a motorway within a couple of seconds. Now, the car tracks straight for the first couple of seconds and then just eases over to the left in a less abrupt manner (as is normal - it will always eventually pull left as the camber of the road takes it just like it would eventually pull right of you drove on the other side of the road).
 
Go for it......

Tyres type and tread pattern play a part too. Tyres with a ^^ pattern make MB's drift. They are even worse if only fitted to one axel or wheel.

We used to have a document at dealers outlining how to set cars up with a "pulling to left" complaint and it was a good document too and it used to work well. All it really was is that we increased the castor on the left front.
 
Pulling to the left -

Tont (WIM) has sorted out several cars for me in the past and did a great job at that.

My advise is: get the car into an empty car park (the far end of a motorway services, for example), and drive it diagonally across the car park i.e. not following any marked lanes. Criss-cross and go over the same route in the opposite direction.

If it pulls - go see WIM asap.

If it does not pull while in the car park, but does on the open road - then go see WIM anyway, but you can decide if you want to have the road camber pull corrected or not.
 
As someone who drives on mainland Europe almost as much as I do in this country, this pull to the left is not something I'd ever look to get corrected. If I did by the methods suggested in this thread then I'd have an even worse pull to the right when abroad surely?

I fully appreciate and bow to the expertise of the OP and may well even use them for wheel alignment in the future, but in my experience cars with wide tyres will always follow road imperfections and camber. There's so very few places left in this country where we could describe a road as flat and smooth that there's always going to be something to 'upset' the geometry and 'pull'.

Or am I completely off the wall? :)

What you describe is "tram-lining" when the car randomly pulls left or right.

Due to the road crown most manufacturer's offers a distance the car needs to resist an "eventual drift", this is very different to a pull.
 
Point to note is the pull will not effect every owner simply because each cars current settings will differ, some to belay a drift, others not.

In addition the reason i put my head on the block with MB is not because i slate the cars, i don't, it's because owners come to us saying "it's the last chance", if the pull remains they are selling the car, well i think that's really sad for such a superb build.

I hope admin and the moderator team don't think i'm looking for work, i'm not, i has explained what's wrong and how to correct it, so it's hardly a wise business move.
 
What you describe is "tram-lining" when the car randomly pulls left or right.

Due to the road crown most manufacturer's offers a distance the car needs to resist an "eventual drift", this is very different to a pull.

I've always understood tram-lining to be when the wheels are following imperfections in the road surface, such as being stuck in a tram rail hence the name. Am I wrong?

If I am on a road, perfectly smooth, no imperfections, where the camber of the road is to the left, many cars I've driven including my current SL will attempt to steer to the left. I would describe that as a pull, not tram-lining. Conversely if the camber of the road is to the right the car will attempt to steer/pull to the right. Are these not the correct definitions/explanations of a pull and tram-lining?

If they are, then is there something wrong with my current and previous cars which have all displayed the same behaviour and can this be corrected to only leave me with drifting irrespective of a left or right camber in the road?

Drifting in my mind would be when the whole car effectively 'slides' across the lane while the steering wheel and geometry remains straight ahead?

Please believe me, I fully recognise and respect your knowledge and expertise in these areas, but I'd like to know we're talking about the same things.

Regards,
 
...I hope admin and the moderator team don't think i'm looking for work, i'm not....

I can confirm that WIM is an asset :thumb:

Moderators, please do not touch... Thanks!
 
I hope admin and the moderator team don't think i'm looking for work, i'm not, i has explained what's wrong and how to correct it, so it's hardly a wise business move.

Far from it.

This is exactly the kind of input we like to see on the forum from our authorised traders. Keep it up. :thumb:
 
Dare I say it but I'd like someone like WIM in every region.

Our cars and tyres deserve it.
 
Dare I say it but I'd like someone like WIM in every region.

Our cars and tyres deserve it.


At the time Tony had on his old website a list of 'trusted' garages across the UK - if a member drops him a PM I am sure he will be happy to help with a recommendation.
 
Hi kamal can you please explain in greater depth how it has affected your c63 please ? thank you

Don, so several points to note...

1. I have "MO" tyres on the car which are ContiSportContact 3 (all in good condition i.e. even wear)
2. Before alignment - the car pulled left as soon as you let go of the steering, not massively but enough to notice straight away
3. MB gave me a load of BS i.e. they couldn't fix it, it was wear and tear after they had tried twice etc (the car is under warranty so I wanted to know if this was a try fault or just tools/competence issue)
4. Most roads are crowned in some way so you really have to pick your road to test if the car goes straight or not. My favourite test is to find a quiet evenly crowned road and drive in the middle (when there is no traffic of course) to test drift/pull
5. Having done the test on it before and after alignment I can confidently tell you the only slight drift I have is due to road crowning - pick my road/position and the car is straight as ever (hands free). Very impressive, as the WIM (Tony) got the adjustment well within MB target data.

Overall, the drive just didn't feel right before alignment (and illustrated by MB report) and what is more notable post alignment is the steering is more balanced in turning in both directions and more taught, which is the way it should be.

I'm sensitive to this issue as I have (non-MB) cars with similar troubles and the solution is always the right alignment, tyre pressures and decent tyres.

Hope this helps. :D
 
Hi kamal can you please explain in greater depth how it has affected your c63 please ? thank you

Far from it.

This is exactly the kind of input we like to see on the forum from our authorised traders. Keep it up. :thumb:

Hey Tony, I don't think this is the kind of club good traders and good objective advice is thrown out of. At the end of the day I'm only telling everyone the facts of what my problem was, how it is now and how it was fixed. Only if I could talk about my dealer in the same way (would suggest some dealership principals join this club!).
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom