diesel additives

Discussion in 'Engine' started by elkavox, May 20, 2008.

  1. elkavox

    elkavox New Member

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    I have a 2 year old E class 220D and wondered if anyone was using additives in the diesel--(such as MILLERS) or would this make the warranty invalid
     
  2. Bobby Dazzler

    Bobby Dazzler MB Club Veteran

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    Check your manual. IIRC it mentions something regarding not using additives. I could be wrong though, so worth checking.
     
  3. glojo

    glojo MB Club Veteran

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    Please read your warranty which will answer your question by saying it is a no, no. BUT..........

    I would point out that when we get our car serviced the main dealer does plonk in these types of additives.
     
  4. GordonTarling

    GordonTarling Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I found that Millers Diesel Power Plus made my E320CDI smoke a lot more, so stopped using it. I think they make another type now, but haven't tried it to know if it's any better or not.
     
  5. c240yaz

    c240yaz Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I have 32 years on diesels, although mainly HGV. Additives do nothing or very little to improve your engine. Waste of money.

    Just keep the engine serviced as per manufacturer's recommended instructions,
     
  6. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    I'm surprised to read that Yas.

    I know people that have gone from a smoke test fail to an easy pass with no work other than fuel treatment to clean the injectors.
    In addition additives provide a cetane improver, lubricant and water dispersant.

    The Millers will be fine to use in the stated dose. Only Power Sport4 is now available now which is more suitable for cars with DPF.

    This is not an endorsement of the product but I do use it and once applied it to an Iveco 2.8 with Sofim engine and the noise changed noticably within 5 miles.
     
  7. c240yaz

    c240yaz Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Dieselman, I am surprised that you said that. Without going in to a debate, I still disagree that any additives will do anything to improve a diesel engines performance / consumption.

    Any change will be short term. So we will have to agree to disagree. Any time served Diesel mechanics I know agree that these products are rubbish. You really surprise me at times.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2008
  8. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    A debate would be good as maybe you have information that is useful. Cetane improvers are designed to create more power by giving a better burn.
    That's known and how 'superior' fuels work.

    The O-p is intending to use a continous dosage, not a one shot cleaner.

    As a matter of interest you have surprised me more than once or twice, but I don't bother mentioning that..
     
  9. KLP 92

    KLP 92 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Have to agree with Dieselman. Millers stuff is very good, you certainly notice the difference. I put them in every few months, never get a problem and the smoke does reduce.
     
  10. television

    television MB Club Veteran

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    I do not want to argue but it gets good write up in the trade press (millers 4)
     
  11. momomo

    momomo Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I spoke with a mb mechanic a little while back and he said that mb do use additives when servicing cars and it is a regular practice for them. He also told me they only use Forte additives (I dont know if its different from dealership to dealership) -

    http://www.forteuk.co.uk/

    Has anyone had any experience with these products? I am finding that are highly regarded by most....
     
  12. mw2510

    mw2510 Active Member

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    i have used forte products in most of my cars and have always had a good improvement in emissions, slight improvement in mpg and the engines seemed to run smother.:)
     
  13. Wezzel

    Wezzel Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    They most definately do work!

    That's why I never have had to replace an injector (Peugeot 405 TD sold at 167,000 miles and my current Merc at 197,000 miles).

    When I have stopped using it for short periods I suffer from diesel knock. This goes away immediately after using an additive. I put a small shot in every fillup. works out at £1.50 per tankful which is cheaper than using a premium fuel.

    It not only keeps the fuel system clean but also contains a cetane improver which definitely makes the car run more smoothly.
     
  14. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    Not got much info for you yet but I have a little for now, hopefully more to follow....;)

    This is a review of diesel additives on test with respect to lubricity. Low sulpher content in diesel reduces it's lubrication value so some additives add enhancers to make up for the shortfall.

    I'm sure I remember it being stated that vegetable based fuels have no lubrication value. Having only heard the opposite of that previously I was surprised as racing oils used to be made of vegetable oil for their superior lubrication values.
    Anyone remember Castrol_R.?

    Additives undergoing standard 'scar' test.

    http://www.johnfjensen.com/Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf

    Another function of additives can be to keep the fuel system clean by use of detergents.

    Pictures of injector needles and piston after one tank of PowerSport4. These were taken at the university performing independent tests.

    Note the piston ring lands.
    http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1690423&postcount=291

    Mercedes dealers do add different brands of additives at service time.
    Forte is a well respected one and I've known HGV garages add it at every service, that's how I first came to try it.

    I am awaiting further information from independent tests. I will post if/when it arrives.
     
  15. momomo

    momomo Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Well those pictures do look pretty conclusive. The point being they do work and keep injectors etc and the fuel system clean.
     
  16. c240yaz

    c240yaz Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    OK, I must be wrong. Sorry, I take it back.
     
  17. c240yaz

    c240yaz Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Dieselman, I do envy the time that you have available to surf the net for information. Unfortuneatly, I am too busy working on diesels to be able to do so, and to be honest, I am not that dedicated. My knowledge comes from my hands on experience, daily, at work.

    But I have to give you credit for your research. Well done.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2008
  18. c240yaz

    c240yaz Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    How many squirts do you recommend for a V16 DD turbo superchagred ?
     
  19. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    Hi Yaz
    I'm not sure whether investigating this is a compliment or not......:eek: :) :D
    I just thought it would be interesting.

    The research didn't take too long actually as the first hit was from HonestJohn forum and the second happens to be someone who works for Millers on the seatcupra forum.

    The first ever report I read on their product was a stripdown of a peugeot 1.9 engine at 250,000 miles, running on their products with (semi-synth) oil changes at twice the recomended interval and using power plus.
    Peugeot inspected the engine and Bosch inspected the injection system and both declared them to be within manufacturers tollerances.

    Although I've been in touch with Millers technical department and am awaiting a full set of information and test results.

    might be interesting...

    As with many things one can have more of an interest when not doing it for the daily grind, and I have been skeptical over the years but have genuinely found Millers to be good stuff as far as engine noise and smoothness is concerned.
    With the Iveco van I chucked in a dose and was frankly amazed when I could tell a difference shortly after wards, the clatter suddenly became subdued.

    As far as fuel consumption with or without, I'm on the fence but haven't yet used the PowerSport4 which claims a greater effect.

    The original product 'Power plus' was designed to reduce back end burn thus reducing smoke in over-fueled racing trucks, but the same applies in cars. this is why I'm always surprised if people say it made their car smoke more.
    I suspect this is because the injectors are then capable of delivering more fuel so hence opacity increases.

    If you are in contact with the same engines on a regular basis it might be worth contacting Millers and obtaining a sample 5 litre can as a trial on a few engines.
    It would be a good test as feedback..

    Dosage is 1000:1 so 5 litres treats 5000 litres of fuel.
    The cost to me works out at 1.4p per litre of treated fuel and should give benefits similar to using 'Ultimate' type diesel as opposed to regular.

    Here is a link to a similar product, that includes some test results.
    http://www.commandfuel.com/index.html

    If anyone has other information, good or bad I'd be pleased to see it.

    Sorry to be so long winded....
     
  20. c240yaz

    c240yaz Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Diesel man, Surprise you ? I have bigger things to worry about. Here is a pic of the type of equipment that I work on, they are big diesels, so, if I even suggested filling the diesel tank of an airport crash tender with chip pan oil, or bleeding the system with veg oil, or "Millers" additives......maybe I would end up being the "star" on the Air Crash Investigation program on sky, never mind getting fired on the spot.

    Please accept my appologies for disagreeing with your views, on how a diesel engine shoud be maintained.

    Bye the way, I had to google the pics as photography on the runway side of the fence is illegal.

    You ideas and internet reseach are good.

    Bye the way, I thank you for every post reply you give me,
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2008

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