Diesel Software Update

[Winstanley]

Hi All,

A software update is being applied to all diesel MB from Dec 2019.

I have been talking to the dealer, and while being helpful and supportive are unable to offer further assistance. I believe the dealers are frustrated too, as there are now a significant loyal customer base who are unhappy as their cars have been de-tuned.

Beware: This software update will radically changed you car for the worse.

The issue has to be taken up with Mercedes Benz and an official complaint raised, a complaint number needs to be sort:

Contact MB on: UK: 01908 245000

They acknowledge:
* This is an official MB "enhancement", and that the NoX levels would be reduced. I stated I would have chosen a petrol version if I required lower NoX levels.
* The top gear in 7 & 9 gears models only operate at ~76 MPH, above the UK legal limit, all gear change points have been effected.
* MANUALLY placing the car into 9th at 70mph has limited effect, as on the flat it will automatically move to DRIVE and change to 8th.
* Operating within the speed limit the car will never reach top gear
* The fuel economy is worse, as the engine power curve has been lowered. So that the engine revs higher; regurgitating more exhaust gasses and significantly warming the catalytic converter, hence lowering NoX.
* Additional ad-blue will be consumed.
* All MB approved second-hand cars must have this "enhancement" to leave the forecourt.
* All regular services by MB will incorporate the enhancement, under the T&C, to service the vehicle.

I believe that MB is encouraging drivers to operate above the speed limit, not consistent with the flow of motorway traffic, putting drivers and passenger's safety at greater risk.

This has been miss sold as an enhancement, when MB will not tell you the consequences of the update.

Is anyone aware of a Class-Action, as this is not the car I originally purchased.

Follow up action with Mercedes Benz

“Paddy Byrne” from the Mercedes Benz call centre has said (attached).
“The dealer has contacted Mercedes Benz Technical and has confirmed it is impossible to reverse the software update”. Therefore, our response can only be “The software cannot be reversed”.

have said that I can raise the issue with “The Motor Ombudsman”

Follow up Action with The Motor Ombudsman

The Motor Ombudsman has said that it is outside of their remit and cannot help
I should contact the “Citizen’s Advice Bureau”



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Mercedes-Benz Customer Service PB-1-25906028206
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 11:14:53 +0100
From: [email protected]
To:

13th February 2020

Ref: PB-1-25906028206

Dear Mr Winstanley,

Mercedes-Benz Model: C-Class C 250 d 4MATIC
Chassis No: WDDxxxxxxxxxx
Registration: xxxxxx

Thank you for contacting Mercedes-Benz Customer Service.

As per our recent phone conversation, the following is written confirmation of our final statement with regards to your complaint case. Based on the concerns you raised regarding the change in gear shifting since a software update was applied, I raised a complaint case and conducted an investigation.

I contacted Mercedes-Benz of Southampton for feedback regarding your issue. The Retailer have confirmed they contacted our internal technical specialists who have advised that it is impossible to reverse the software update. As discussed, 9th gear is still reachable by manual gear shifts at a lower speed. However, I can appreciate taking into account influences of road inclination and load, that the car can shift quite easily back to 8th gear. Having been in contact with our trained technicians I can confirm that the car cannot be returned to its previous state.

I trust this finds you well and should you have any further requirements, please do not hesitate to contact me or any of my colleagues.

If you are unhappy with this final decision or feel this matter is unresolved, you can seek advice with an CTSI Certified Alternative Dispute Resolution provider. We are prepared to engage with The Motor Ombudsman to resolve your dispute. Further details can be found at www.themotorombudsman.org, or alternatively their telephone number is 0345 241 3008 selecting option 1.

Yours sincerely

Paddy Byrne
Customer Service UK

Mercedes-Benz UK Customer Service can be contacted by telephone on 008 009 777 7777 or 0207 660 9993, Monday - Friday between 08:00 & 18:00.

Mercedes-Benz Customer Assistance Center Maastricht N.V. Gelissendomein 5, 6229 GK Maastricht , Netherlands. Register No.: K.v.K. Limburg 33014909

If you are not the addressee please inform us immediately that you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete it. We thank you for your support.

Mercedes-Benz collects and processes your personal data as necessary for the provision of our services.
If you would like to know more about your general privacy rights, we refer you to the privacy statement on the following website: www.mercedes-benz.co.uk

[ACTIVITY ID:1-BYU0C0U][CASE ID:1-BWFS3AM]

 

[ferg f]

Very interesting, I have just posted this :-

GLE Software update

It sounds as though your issues are similar to the issues we are having with the wifes car! Looks as though they re sticking two fingers up at their customers!!!!!

Well they have given us a courtesy car and with the last week of terrbible weather my car has not moved, can't lol, so they are going to be a little peeved as their car has 480 miles on it!!!!

I am pushing this one and they can re-flash the ECU back to the original parameters as I refuse to believe there is not a copy of the original setting on file..... I can go to and independent and get it all reflashed back to the way it was but I am not prepared to be out of pocket for their mess.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Hi OP and welcome. This has been discussed on this forum and I for one are with you, MB have apparently sold cars that have been specifically set up to 'cheat' emission regulations , then realising they are heading for a whole world of $hit (as VW did) they took it upon themselves to mess with your car in a worldwide damage limitation exercise. Disgraceful behaviour.

Unless they physically remove/change a component I can not see how a software change can be irreversible. Liars.

P.S The motor ombudsman and the Citizens advice bureau ? Good luck with that. In the USA VW were found out and investigated by the F.B.I !! That's why they ended up paying out and buying cars back. That will never happen in the UK...Unless Boris fancies giving a big German car exporter a kicking during EU leave negotiations !

 

[400ixl]

Not necessarily liars at all, without further software development. Most firmware type software is written to be forward progressive only, so designed that an older firmware cannot be applied over a newer one.

This is most likely how MB have written their software. SO at present they cannot write an older version over a newer one at a dealers as the system would say no. They would need to recode their software in this case to allow such instances. Not to say that they can't do this, but would be a central development and out of the hands of dealers or MB UK.

3rd parties can flash over the MB map, because their software is specifically designed to do so.

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

3rd party tuners or independent mechanics cannot put the car back to how it was. Not even a Bosch specialist. I know because I've called around a lot and asked.

The only possibly hope is that MB offer a further update in the next year or two to mitigate some of the effects if there is a huge customer backlash.

Likely, nothing will happen, but it's worth moaning to MBUK and the dealers about it and not just roll over and accept defeat.

 

[fifermerc]

I've just had this update done on my car (E350) today. Understandably, having read various posts on the forum, I was a bit wary but as I have a service plan for the car it was going to be done next time it got serviced anyway. Picked up the car just after lunchtime and on the way home I thought I would take a slight detour to give it a run on a dual carriageway.

In terms of performance, I can't say I noticed any difference. Acceleration wasn't any different, and the car went in to 9th gear initially at about 70, and was in 9th as low as 65. Again, pretty normal in my experience. Obviously I need to wait to see about mpg, but when I got home after about 15 miles it was showing just over 36mpg, again not too much different from what I would expect given a cold start, relatively short run, part city part rural, and some of it up to 75+mph.

In addition to the software update they also changed both the NOx sensors free of charge. The service advisor did say they had had "issues" with them!

 

[ioweddie]

My c220d 1916 model premier plus estate has been recalled...for the same update...I have it booked in next week...time will tell...could this be the next PPI?

 

[Petrol Pete]

Doubt if it will be the 'next PPi' as it only affects 'rich' people who buy German 'luxury' cars. No one should hold their breath in expectation of any government help on this one.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Not necessarily liars at all, without further software development. Most firmware type software is written to be forward progressive only, so designed that an older firmware cannot be applied over a newer one.

This is most likely how MB have written their software. SO at present they cannot write an older version over a newer one at a dealers as the system would say no. They would need to recode their software in this case to allow such instances. Not to say that they can't do this, but would be a central development and out of the hands of dealers or MB UK.

3rd parties can flash over the MB map, because their software is specifically designed to do so.

Exactly . Liars, the whole thing is out of the hands of any Mercedes Benz dealer anywhere in the world. It all stems from the top, the very top, those who instruct employees to write emission control defeating software and then install it in their product and lie to every market place they sell it in. Liars.

 

[merc07]

You can get it flashed but not from the Merc dealers as they are locked out from any earlier version.
I have just had to drive mine an extra 15 miles tonight to get the dpf regen to finish and get the temps down from 650C.
That's 3 times this week, and I only do 60 miles a day - average mpg is now 29.5

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Mine isn't DPF regenerating any more noticeably often. I only thought it was originally because of the 7th gear 'issue' - it would do also stay in 6th (or in the OPs case probably 7th with his 9G box) if you were regenerating on the motorway.

And I'm sorry for the repetition but as I said above, you cannot currently get it flashed back to the old version by anybody. That's not how a remap works, they modify your existing map, they do not overwrite the old one with an entirely new operating system, like a PC would.

 

[merc07]

Maybe mine does more regens as I do alot of town driving ?

Anyhow - I have a spare ecu for my car with an early software version that I will swap out on the w/e and see how it compares.
I should also have a copy from before the update so I will get the other one put back to its original state in the next couple of weeks

 

[Gazwould]

Mine isn't DPF regenerating any more noticeably often. I only thought it was originally because of the 7th gear 'issue' - it would do also stay in 6th (or in the OPs case probably 7th with his 9G box) if you were regenerating on the motorway.

And I'm sorry for the repetition but as I said above, you cannot currently get it flashed back to the old version by anybody. That's not how a remap works, they modify your existing map, they do not overwrite the old one with an entirely new operating system, like a PC would.

The nail on the head .

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Maybe mine does more regens as I do alot of town driving ?

Anyhow - I have a spare ecu for my car with an early software version that I will swap out on the w/e and see how it compares.
I should also have a copy from before the update so I will get the other one put back to its original state in the next couple of weeks

Perhaps - do you use Shell Vpower? Might burn a little cleaner.

Also, if you do swap in another ECU, you have to get it coded to the car by MB as far as I'm aware? It's not just plug and play I don't think, but happy to be proven wrong.

 

[merc07]

Esso standard diesel - nectar points..
It is already coded for my car...will be interesting to see what the soot content gets too before regen.
With the update it is 5g or 500km

 

[Petrol Pete]

You can get it flashed but not from the Merc dealers as they are locked out from any earlier version.
I have just had to drive mine an extra 15 miles tonight to get the dpf regen to finish and get the temps down from 650C.
That's 3 times this week, and I only do 60 miles a day - average mpg is now 29.5

Wow. ! I did a 250 mile round trip in my ancient 5.4 V8 2 days ago, most of it motorway , but not hanging around and I got 23.9mpg average. Is the 29.5 mpg you quote in your C350 ?, if so thats not good.

 

[ferg f]

Wow. ! I did a 250 mile round trip in my ancient 5.4 V8 2 days ago, most of it motorway , but not hanging around and I got 23.9mpg average. Is the 29.5 mpg you quote in your C350 ?, if so thats not good.

On the exact same run, my missis was getting 40+mpg prior to this update and now is lucky to squeeze 32mpg. Compare this to her using my C63 and getting 33mpg on the exact same run!!!!

Really, a C63 is more economical than a GLE250!!!!!! And we are to accept that!

Interestingly, the wife has just found the recall letter and it states that fuel consumption will not be effected!

 

[Petrol Pete]

On the exact same run, my missis was getting 40+mpg prior to this update and now is lucky to squeeze 32mpg. Compare this to her using my C63 and getting 33mpg on the exact same run!!!!

Really, a C63 is more economical than a GLE250!!!!!! And we are to accept that!

Interestingly, the wife has just found the recall letter and it states that fuel consumption will not be effected!

Shocking ! Once people cotton on to this it must affect the re sale value of diesel cars and push the value even lower than it is for them now.

 

[grober]

Unfortunately your wife's car will have the old OM651 twin turbo engine which was already compromised during its production run by the piezo injector reliability problem necessitating an injector redesign. Couple that to post engine exhaust treatment equipment further distanced from the engine than more modern designs means that MB engineers tasked with cleaning up the exhaust NOx were perhaps always going to struggle to achieve the desired figures without compromising MPG's*- Altho its undergone numerous tweaks, its a relatively old engine design by todays standards. having first seen the light of day in 2008!
Mercedes OM 651 engine (2008-)

* that's more in the way of an explanation not an excuse

 

[Gazwould]

Jesus a 10 mpg drop .

How old is the GLE and how long is that journey and types of roads ?