Diesel Tuning

[GrahamC230K]

My cautious side is telling me that although it must be true (Jimmy and Sym's runs almost confirm it) I should have my car dyno'ed somewhere else to verify.

I'll try and organise this within the next few weeks - also get some torque figures as this was not measured.


EDIT: due a service soon - probably do after that.

 

[GrahamC230K]

Originally posted by GDC200
Optimax until the next Dyno run then?

No chance.

 

[GrahamC230K]

How about a "Dyno Day" GTG?


I see some clubs and magazines organise them?


Anyone in with Power Engineer or similar to book out for a morning or afternoon?

If we could get 5 or so cars I'm sure it would be good fun. No tuning or crapping about - just a power run.

 

[Robbo]

Thats a nice idea!

But somehow, I'd rather live in ignorance about the exact power of my engine. I wouldn't want to be disappointed if somehow the measurements came out low.

Anyway, I easily burned off the tw*t in an MG this afternoon who was tailgating me trying to overtake. If anything it seems to pick up in acceleration once you get over 100 mph

Not that I would know of course

Cheers, Robbo

 

[Dieselman]

Originally posted by jimmy
Dieselman,




So propane is similiar to nitrous then? I was talking to somebody today who are working on developing a range of dump valves for diesel cars, I would not have thought that a dump valve would have much advantage with an auto.

Propane does indeed work similar to nitrous.

Dump valves for a diesel!...Err no can do. A diesel has no throttle flaps so a dump valve doesn't do anything. If a valve is fitted into the inlet manifold it will release the pressure so make the sweesh noise, but it will also have lost the manifold pressure so there will be LESS boost than with no dump valve.

Leave this to MAX POWER subscribers.

 

[Dieselman]

Jimmy

If you want a bit more go out of your diesel try these mods.

Remove the air intake side of the turbo housing and polish the inside of the housing until shiny. Wrap the exhaust manifold and exhaust turbo housing in heatproof wrapping. You can even remove the manifold and open up the inside bores if required. Block the EGR valve vacuum pipe with a suitable ball bearing to stop the valve operating.
If feeling flush fit a larger intercooler or an air to water jobbie, to cram more air into the engine. You already have an exess fuel setup so no need to alter that at all. A large bore exhaust and manifold will then work wonders.

Some of the above mods will work on petrol engines especially charged versions.

 

[GrahamC230K]

 

[jimmy]

Thanks for that, I had thought about a bigger intercooler, maybe one day. For now I am more than happy with what I have got, never thought it was possible from a dirty, smelly, noisy diesel engine. Thats what makes it so much better.:bannana:

 

[Dieselman]

Originally posted by GrahamC230K

I'll try and organise this within the next few weeks - also get some torque figures as this was not measured.


How can this be when the Dyno only really measures torque and then calculates power?

Post the power and RPM readings and we can then calculate the torque.

T=P X 5252/RPM.

 

[GrahamC230K]

Originally posted by Dieselman

Originally posted by GrahamC230K

I'll try and organise this within the next few weeks - also get some torque figures as this was not measured.


How can this be when the Dyno only really measures torque and then calculates power?

Post the power and RPM readings and we can then calculate the torque.

T=P X 5252/RPM.

I read Marks post on how the dyno works, so yes see your point.

However - for whatever reason - the kit we used today does not include a torque graph.

It MEASURED KW at the wheels and the transmission losses and printed a Power curve that's all. I claim nothing more or less. I may go elsehwere to see what torque is at, but I know that the car is running well, is up on power and I am happy to be honest.

I also think you must mean P=T X 5252/RPM

 

[Dieselman]

Originally posted by GrahamC230K


It MEASURED KW at the wheels and the transmission losses and printed a Power curve that's all. I claim nothing more or less. I may go elsehwere to see what torque is at, but I know that the car is running well, is up on power and I am happy to be honest.

I also think you must mean P=T X 5252/RPM [/B]

No. P=T x Rpm / 5252 so therefore T = P x 5252 / Rpm. unless my algebra is going a bit fuzzy. Very possible!

Example: P = 218 Bhp.
RPM = 5500

so T = 218 X 5252 / 5500

T = 208 Lbft. @ 5500Rpm

or P = 208 X 5500 / 5252

P = 218 Bhp. @ 5500Rpm

Can you give any figures off the power curve?

 

[GrahamC230K]

Not sure if that works.

Enough speculation about figures I have had measured, so not going to start guessing at any. Thanks for your interest.

 

[scotth_uk]

Hi Guys,

Here's some dyno graphs to make you laugh:

Micra #1
Micra #2
Micra #3

And I used to think that these figures made for a speedy car.

 

[jimmy]

I am sure you are all getting bored by now, we don't like long threads do we.

After the debate on the authenticity of our rolling road session, I have been looking at my power graph, the guy who did it made a simple mistake with his maths. So I apologise for the confusion and heated debate.

On the standard power run my car gave a peak power output at the wheels of 99Kw, the transmission losses on deceleration amounted to 17-18Kw. Therefore the peak power at the wheels was 134hp and the engine output is 117Kw which converts to 159Bhp at the engine.

The four power runs in tuned mode returned peak power levels at the wheels of between 112 and 116 Kw, with the same tranny losses of 17-18Kw, my peak power was 129Kw not 139Kw as originally calculated. So in horsepower that equates to 152hp at the wheels and 175hp at the engine.

Now I know there is some debate about automatic transmission losses, some people have suggested that the transmission losses cannot be measured on a rolling road and have to be guessed or presumed. Some have suggested auto transmission losses account for 50bhp...........in that case my engine would be producing over 200bhp!! Hmmmmm.

All I know is that my car is much more responsive, smoother and quicker than before, this is all that really matters to me.

 

[Shude]

If I had my car dyno'd then we could compare Graham's c230k with mine. Both cars are pre-MAS relocation so should both be 193bhp at the engine. The road HP when compared should reveal the differences between auto and manual. THEN we can "assume" transmission losses more accurately

 

[se97mlm]

Shude, when you said MAS relocation, did you mean the move to South aFrican production? Any idea when that happened?

 

[Shude]

Originally posted by se97mlm
Shude, when you said MAS relocation, did you mean the move to South aFrican production? Any idea when that happened?

lol no, I mean that in 2000 they moved the mass-airflow sensor on the 230k engines, from next to the radiator to a little further up the pipe, so it got a better reading, pushing it from 193 to 197bhp .

 

[GrahamC230K]

Originally posted by Shude
If I had my car dyno'd then we could compare Graham's c230k with mine. Both cars are pre-MAS relocation so should both be 193bhp at the engine. The road HP when compared should reveal the differences between auto and manual. THEN we can "assume" transmission losses more accurately

Something that is not a bad idea. Don't know any other C230K owners.

Not like we are likely to meet at any other time - how about seeing if we can fit a run in at the place near Jimmy early morning before we go to the GTG next month?

Assumptions aside if your autos cant really be measured (I am happy the 40 BHP loss measured on mine - realistic according to Mark our resident expert) it would be nice to compare BHP @ the wheels.

However - to enable you to wrork out AUTO losses from this - we would have to assume our engine power was near identical.

You only have a Green Cotton air filter which does not worry me but....

There is my measured 218BHP to worry about. Now it may have been my lucky day - but Sym was on the same rollers straight after me and he didnt have an ego boosting measurement.
I'm not naieve enough to think I would get this every time, but me thinks I'm up a least a bit on standard - and if all C230K's were I'm sure we'd know - it would be common knowledge on Bnzsport for example.

I'd like another run for consistency.

Also - how did Mark and Vinay conclude that his Transmission losses from his run at Power Engineering?

 

[Shude]

Originally posted by GrahamC230K
You only have a Green Cotton air filter which does not worry me but...

I could always put the oem one back

We should get the cars dyno'd together somewhere

 

[jimmy]

My power graph if anyone is interested, I have added some notes to explain the graph.