Diesels

[Gazwould]

They look nice , right size an all that , but hense the Cash Cow name..

What torque does the 3.5 put out ?

 

[grober]

I would offer that purchasers of diesels [ including myself] pre the "dieselgate fallout" are lumbered and their choices are somewhat limited compared to someone contemplating purchase of a new car.

 

[markjay]

I believe that it is the older diesels (pre 2013 ??) are a problem. Modern units are still ok.

...for now.

Without the taxation benefit, few people will buy Diesels, and they will become an extinct species,

At the moment people buy new Teslas like they are going out of fashion, because they are actually cheaper for business users than the comparable German marque equipped with (large) Diesel engines.

 

[DSM10000]

I imagine we were in a very similar position to many when searching for a car last year.

When looking for an E Class or similar 5 Series the choice of petrol engines was extremely limited and those available were predominantly the smaller 4 cylinder type so after months of perusing I bought the E 320CDi because it was a good price (5k), had a very good service history and had the equipment level we wanted.

In terms of the engine, I do not like it's rather uncouth start up or engine noise when cold but it is a fine engine for cruising being powerful and relaxing to use and acceptably economical although good fuel consumption is not one of the prerequisites for me.

I will probably keep it three years by which time it will have covered around 160,000 maximum. For me it will then be written off financially so anything I get for it will be a bonus but I think that amongst those that know and appreciate these cars I would probably still find a ready buyer.

 

[Justintyme]

Although I’d had several diesels while working, with hindsight, I made a big mistake buying a low mileage diesel. (Not MB, only because I wanted a full 4 seater folding hardtop convertible which MB don’t do). 5 years old with only 29,000 miles.

Now on 42000, and all sorts of exhaust related problems, DPF shot etc, fortunately I bought aftermarket warranty, which has proved to be the best bargain........

Might have to go back to solid tintop or ragtop, non+diesel.

And how long have you had it? Had you bought an older pre dpf diesel engine car, the mileage would be immaterial...20 or 200'000 miles, no difference. ( admittedly, it would have been an emission disaster ) But since the big clean-up began, in order to keep your diesel engine running trouble free ( in as much as it's possible to have a trouble free engine... ) it need's to be driven. So if as in your case, the mileage is small, then you are better of with petrol, or EV.

 

[horatio]

However, Diesel cars should really be purchased new or nearly-new, both because of compliance with the latest low-emission standards etc, and because of the potential high cost of repairs once out of warranty.

I wouldn't buy a diesel after about Euro5(?) when adblue systems and DPF's came in. For me, they are just too complicated for it to be worth it after that point. On my old thing there's only really the injectors to worry about.

The trouble with buying a car to meet regs is that the gov will keep moving the goalposts.

 

[GeeJayW]

I wouldn't buy a diesel after about Euro5(?) when adblue systems and DPF's came in. For me, they are just too complicated for it to be worth it after that point. On my old thing there's only really the injectors to worry about.

The trouble with buying a car to meet regs is that the gov will keep moving the goalposts.

Diesel cars without DPF emitt too much particulates for acceptable urban air quality.
Diesel cars without (effective) Addblue SCR systems, emitt too much NOx for acceptable urban air quality.

It won't be long before all major cities apply ULEZ regulations to the centre of town. Pre EU6 diesels will be effectively banned from urban use.

The government (of the day) moves the goal posts in order to meet their agenda. A lot of the focus on diesel is a means to reduce congestion, but it's hard to deny that old diesels are bad for local air quality.

 

[Gazwould]

What do you call a reasonable smoke opacity mean value for a non dpf car ?

If they apply banning non compliant ULEZ cars from town centres, the ailing high street is dead .

For sure cities need it , more population and traffic dense and taller buildings.

Towns , naaa.

 

[GeeJayW]

Under current regulations, as far as I know (I'm not an MoT tester), any visible smoke during the 'free acceleration test' is a fail result. I haven't done a smoke opacity test for decades (not been relevant to any work I did, although vaguely remember doing some tests on a Tata truck in India maybe fifteen years ago). To be honest I have forgotten the values.

Part of the problem now is that particle sizes are too small to reflect visible light, so they are effectively invisible to you and me. They are however still harmful to health (actually more harmful than big old soot particles) and without particulate filter, are emitted in big numbers. Particulate number has been part of the diesel emissions standard since Euro 5 and applies to diesel and gasoline from Euro 6.

 

[Gazwould]

The visable smoke is dpf equipped , flawed and unnecessary as a machine is quantifying with a measurement .

 

[Deleted member 126251]

At the moment people buy new Teslas like they are going out of fashion, because they are actually cheaper for business users than the comparable German marque equipped with (large) Diesel engines.

Teslas @ £75k to £132k - not sure they are selling that quickly. However, if there were more charging points available, better range and better prices, I'd have one.

 

[artyman]

So what is the situation with a pre DPF W204, is it now going to get the axe when the next MOT comes round? I now only do a low annual mileage, since having had the car for 8 1/2 years it is worth more to me than any trade in I would probably get, so had planned on just running it for the foreseeable future

 

[Gazwould]

Still has to blow less than the VIN plate manufacturers smoke coefficient value .

Which is ? And what does it normally blow ?

I've a 2003 Euro 3 VW with a very unfair 0.60 , whilst a 2009 Ford C max 1.8 tdci is 1.75 , higher than the 1.50 default .

 

[fabes]

They look nice , right size an all that , but hense the Cash Cow name..

What torque does the 3.5 put out ?

How much Torque from the V6?
Enough, but I don't actually know.

It's the M276, so 360, 370NM? (And over 300bhp)

A little more than the diesel
PS - quoting the SUN.....?

 

[David404]

I'm not in the market at the mo but am always browsing used car sites.
1 I just don't have £40k for a new E class or any other make/ model in that bracket
2 I need a car that will tow 1700kg of caravan

3 do a search on the MB site for used E class and see how many petrols there are that aren't full fat AMG.

Next car, were I in the market right now, I'd like an E but will look at Volvo V90, Audi A6, BMW 5. Don't like Range Rover or Jag, both have way too much bad history for me, don't want SUV. So not too many choices do I,!

The Gov didn't even kiss me before they....

 

[PeteTheOldGit]

Reverted back to petrol last year , w205 class 2.0 , I get between 30-35 mpg to and from work on a 10 mile round journey. On a run I get 40 plus no problem bombing along at 70 mph. For me that's a great return on petrol considering I got no better from my Jag XF previously. I know a few people who sell cars in dealerships and they all say the same , the public as totally lost all faith in the black stuff even more so the unknowing. More and more are walking into the showrooms and asking about electric and hybrid then petrol. Im not sure diesel will now recover and I see and many others too the resale market dropping big time. Petrol equiv now are not a million miles away in figures from the diesels and improving all the time and with the electric scene no where near ready unless u wish to invest big time in a Tesla petrol for me and what seems the majority of the general public is the immediate future.

 

[thebiglad]

Simple question are diesels dead in the water if busting a new car?

If you buy a new diesel today and keep it for, say, 3-4 years my thoughts are that it will suffer massive depreciation; here's my reasoning:

1. Politically diesel engines are already dead. By 2022 onwards they will be banned in all major cities where the majority of the population lives, so your re-sale market will be significantly reduced.

2. More and more EV's at relatively realistic new prices will be available and once drivers have experienced EV motoring, they'll never go back.

3. Charging at home with attractive special packages for cheap rate charging will be commonplace. It's already starting over here where energy suppliers are offering VERY cheap rate energy between for example 3am and 6am which is more than enough time to fully charge (with a £250 EV charging port installed) a 60w/hr EV and give 250+ mls.

4. Solar panels with battery storage will become commonplace and be mandatory on all new builds. Their costs have reduced in the last 10 yrs have reduced 10 times.

5. EV batteries - the single most expensive component of an EV - have dropped significantly in price over the last 5 years. This trend will continue. The advent of new tech batteries is almost upon us now and will be in production soon and will allow for 800v 5 mins charging, more dense power storage.

6. In 2018 in the UK an extraordinary thing happened. For the first time in the life of national electricity generation, the UK grid was over 50% operated using non fossil fuels. In other words wind, solar and tidal produced 50+% of the total energy used. This trend is now so well entrenched that it is at a tipping point to go fully renewable over the next 5 years.

7. As a result of the above, ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) cars will be perceived as old hat. Yes of course there will still be people owning ICE cars they won't just disappear, but their value will be dimished - except for specialist enthusiast vehicles.

 

[190]

Diesels had an exaggerated market share and that has gone forever but diesels in large cars will survive for a few more years, after all a diesel in a large car is a logical extension of diesels in commercial vehicles, it's where they make most economic sense. The manufacturers seem to think so, not least MB, because they are still selling them. Diesels will disappear eventually but the high mileage business user and commercial vehicles will be the last to go. Regardless who still buys diesel cars for good economic reasons, the depreciation advantage they held over petrol cars is gone. That could make them good buys on the 2nd hand car market for high mileage use.

 

[thebiglad]

Diesels had an exaggerated market share and that has gone forever but diesels in large cars will survive for a few more years, after all a diesel in a large car is a logical extension of diesels in commercial vehicles, it's where they make most economic sense. The manufacturers seem to think so, not least MB, because they are still selling them. Diesels will disappear eventually but the high mileage business user and commercial vehicles will be the last to go. Regardless who still buys diesel cars for good economic reasons, the depreciation advantage they held over petrol cars is gone. That could make them good buys on the 2nd hand car market for high mileage use.

I suspect the opposite will happen. If EV's proliferate as I expect, companies will be looking for ways to reduce their fleet costs and will move over to EV on purely cost-saving grounds.

 

[zipdip]

Well it is up to people to decide just what will happen in the next 10/15 years,when you start looking at all the vehicles that will still be using diesel in that time period,like trucks, trains and buses and of course shipping,I think you can see that cars will still be about running diesel,we then get to just what is the aim of governments,many are being led by some green ideas,but the worlds pollution problems is completely out of the hands of western governments,and the far east is quiet rightly saying hey you had your industrial revolution we are having ours now.