Difference between Surface and perforation -corrosion- Cop out under the 30 year warranty?

[drmacf]

Hi Everyone,

As you know may my C Kompressor 180 -2008 is now in a garage, with a corroded sub frame and other corrosion in parts. I wrote to MB, to see if they could cover it under their 30 year corrosion guarantee. However they have come up with two cop out clauses
1) Surface v/s Perforation corrosion-- I find this had to fathom and how can they prove it is not? Do they do any metallurgical testing?
2) Is that a lack of MB dealership servicing? At least this seems like a plausible excuse

Any idea on how to respond?
They should have a PDF about this 30 year warranty, I bet they have to refer to it on a daily basis
Cut and pasted their response below
-------


Thank you for contacting Mercedes-Benz Customer Service.

I am sorry to hear you have been facing issues with your car. In relation to the 30 year warranty, Mercedes-Benz provides a 30 year Anti-Perforation Warranty. This warranty is specifically intended to provide assistance and protection should your vehicle develop perforation corrosion. This is a form of corrosion that develops from inside the vehicle itself, starting in a hollow section or cavity and continuing through to the outer layers leading to perforation of the exterior sheet metal.

Please note that this Warranty is not applicable in respect of the occurrence of any other form of corrosion. Therefore, surface corrosion caused by any external influence, such as stone chips or precipitation, is specifically excluded. In addition, for this warranty to be applicable the vehicle must have a complete service history with Mercedes-Benz. Therefore the vehicle must have been serviced in accordance with our recommendations by a Mercedes-Benz Retailer. As your vehicle has not been seen in the Mercedes-Benz network since 2013, Mercedes-Benz of Lincoln were correct to advise this would no longer be applicable on your car.

In regards to your further comments surrounding the part acquisition, I do sincerely apologize if any conflicting information was given and for any inconvenience this may have caused. We would however only be able to investigate this further if additional information was provided such as order reference and details of the second Retailer this was discussed with. If you wouldn't mind providing these, I would be more than happy to look into this for you.

Should you have any further requirements please do not hesitate to contact me or any of my colleagues.

If you are unhappy with this final decision or feel this matter is unresolved, you can seek advice with a CTSI Certified Alternative Dispute Resolution provider, including The Motor Ombudsman who may be able to resolve your complaint in appropriate circumstances. Details can be found at www.themotorombudsman.org, or alternatively their telephone number is 0345 241 3008 selecting option 1.

ps from the pic
how to tell if the corrosion is from the inside or outside?

 

[whitenemesis]

Sorry seems pretty clear to me. Only covers corrosion from underneath the painted surfaces. Been that way since year dot...

 

[Petrol Pete]

It's a shame this does not appear to be an issue on W204's in the USA. It would have been sorted by now....over there , but not here in the UK . MB have a sold a whole load of these over the years and the subframe problem is real , but only on a tiny amount of cars (so far) . Personally I would (sadly) not expect MB to do much about this.

 

[drmacf]

Sorry seems pretty clear to me. Only covers corrosion from underneath the painted surfaces. Been that way since year dot...

Could you please let me know what's the difference?
A sub frame is meant to rot away in 13 years?

 

[markjay]

A few comments, in no particular order.

1. You're quite right, I found a lot of motoring articles regarding the 30 years anti-corrosion warranty, but I was not able to find and download a formal MB document in PDF format with the precise T&Cs.

2. The response you posted isn't from MB, it's from the dealer (not same thing). I appreciate that you tried contacting MB UK via the web form and was referred back to MB Lincoln; be it as it may, the fact remains that you do not have in your possession a response from MB. If you do manage to get one (have you tried emailing cac?), it might not be the same as the dealer's response.

3. MB Lincoln didn't actually say that your subframe rotted from the outside. Their response that the warranty only covers corrosion from the inside out, can be seen as a generic comment, especially given that they didn't actually inspect your car.

4. It was also elsewhere mentioned that the dealer said that the subframe isn't covered by the 30 years anti corrosion warranty because the suspension isn't parts of the actual car's bodywork. This is another impasse, because it makes the discussion regarding the cause of the subframe rust purely academic.

5. I think that if you did want to pursue this, then going down the 30 years anti corrosion warranty route is barking up the wrong tree, for the reasons mentioned above. Instead, you'd have to prove that the rotting subframe is a common issue; that subframes should and do last much longer than 13 years; then attack the issue via the Consumer Rights Act 2015 on the premise that the product was not of sufficient quality when sold new, or not fit for purpose, or both. It's doable, but expensive.

 

[drmacf]

A few comments, in no particular order.

1. You're quite right, I found a lot of motoring articles regarding the 30 years anti-corrosion warranty, but I was not able to find and download a formal MB document in PDF format with the precise T&Cs.

2. The response you posted isn't from MB, it's from the dealer (not same thing). I appreciate that you tried contacting MB UK via the web form and was referred back to MB Lincoln; be it as it may, the fact remains that you do not have in your possession a response from MB. If you do manage to get one (have you tried emailing cac?), it might not be the same as the dealer's response.

3. MB Lincoln didn't actually say that your subframe rotted from the outside. Their response that the warranty only covers corrosion from the inside out, can be seen as a generic comment, especially given that they didn't actually inspect your car.

4. It was also elsewhere mentioned that the dealer said that the subframe isn't covered by the 30 years anti corrosion warranty because the suspension isn't parts of the actual car's bodywork. This is another impasse, because it makes the discussion regarding the cause of the subframe rust purely academic.

5. I think that if you did want to pursue this, then going down the 30 years anti corrosion warranty route is barking up the wrong tree, for the reasons mentioned above. Instead, you'd have to prove that the rotting subframe is a common issue; that subframes should and do last much longer than 13 years; then attack the issue via the Consumer Rights Act 2015 on the premise that the product was not of sufficient quality when sold new, or not fit for purpose, or both. It's doable, but expensive.

Hi Mark,

The response was from

Ellen Birnie
Customer Service UK

Not from MB listers/Lincoln, who are absolutely good for nothing, forget replying to my mails

 

[markjay]

Hi Mark,

The response was from

Ellen Birnie
Customer Service UK

Not from MB listers/Lincoln, who are absolutely good for nothing, forget replying to my mails

Apologies, I misread it.

 

[drmacf]

All these Ombudsman etc seems to be in the pockets of MB, don't you think they have not received a high volume of complaints so far?

How about going for the jugular
-How about making a massive complaint to DVSA highlighting the safety aspect
-Also ask Ombudsmen about the number of complaints it has received , under the Freedom of information act
-Make a Face book page, with all this information which is available on forums and send it across to all motoring magazines and web sites

At least let the people are aware that MB has a hue corrosion issue?
I know I may get nothing from this, but if people are aware and even if one life is saved, then it will be a huge victory

 

[markjay]

Looks like someone attempted something similar:

https://www-north-wales-police.azurewebsites.net/media/658263/2020-752-mercedes-rear-subframe-failure.pdf

 

[drmacf]

Looks like someone attempted something similar:

https://www-north-wales-police.azurewebsites.net/media/658263/2020-752-mercedes-rear-subframe-failure.pdf

Great template, can cut and paste and email everyone across the board, with a copy to MB CS as well
That will surely put a spoke in their smug cop out clause!!

 

[drmacf]

Looks like someone attempted something similar:

https://www-north-wales-police.azurewebsites.net/media/658263/2020-752-mercedes-rear-subframe-failure.pdf

Trust North Wales Police? When they can't even get the spelling of information right ??? ifrnmoration

 

[drmacf]

Looks like someone attempted something similar:

https://www-north-wales-police.azurewebsites.net/media/658263/2020-752-mercedes-rear-subframe-failure.pdf

Why can't I start with CS MB ? Asking them for the same information, under the Freedom of Information act?
Considering that it's a public safety issue?
They will always come out with some 'cop out' clause and avoid answering it but is it not a start?

 

[oldguy57]

Why can't I start with CS MB ? Asking them for the same information, under the Freedom of Information act?
Considering that it's a public safety issue?
They will always come out with some 'cop out' clause and avoid answering it but is it not a start?

Because the FOI Act only applies to public authorities (or organisations partly funded by them), not to commercial concerns. No harm in asking them to cough up some information, but I doubt you'll get anywhere.

 

[markjay]

I think the FOI Act also applies to commercial organisations, but only in respect of the individual's own data, I.e. the OP can submit an FOI request to MB asking them to make available to him any information they have on their systems regarding himself, but not anything else e.g. information regarding other MB vehicles.

 

[markjay]

The DVSA could force MB to issue a recall, but how do you convince the DVSA that there's an issue in the first place, is a different matter.

 

[Will]

This sort of reminds me of the older W210 corrosion days.

Disappointing as it may be, I think it is unrealistic to expect MB to cough up for whatever part is failing at 13 years old especially on such a car that is at an age/mileage where by the cost of repairs is equal to or greater than the typical value. If it had full MB history and low mileage they might be more generous in terms of ‘good will’ but that’s a separate issue to a warranty.

In other words, all cars have issues - be it mechanical, cosmetic, electrical etc. At 13 years old you’re on your own sadly - it’s why older cars are cheap to buy. You have to expect stuff like this from time to time. Sometimes you’re lucky, sometimes you’re not. It’s your call where you take the car for the work and/or what you do with it long term - newer cars cost more in depreciation, swings and roundabouts really.

I wouldn’t spend too much time/energy on chasing this - fix the car and move on

 

[chic0821]

Send the Police report to
Ellen Birnie
Customer Service UK Who replied to your original query & ask what her take on this is. I suspect you may wait a long time for her reply

Why do they even bother putting in this 30 year warranty rubbish. What priority is it when you are buying a new car. For 99.9% or even more buyers they won't even consider it. This is a throwback from the 50's/60's when cars were basically rusting a few months after you bought them & if they ever reached 13 years old there was more Isopon & fibreglass holding them together than metal.
I would suspect that before you discovered about this rusting, you never gave it a thought like the rest of us. Unfortunately you will never get any satisfaction from Mercedes (how many complaints have they had over the last year, you & you.). As already stated fix it or bin it

 

[markjay]

Send the Police report to
Ellen Birnie
Customer Service UK Who replied to your original query & ask what her take on this is. I suspect you may wait a long time for her reply

The police report said they had no information regarding any accidents where rotting MB subframe were involved...?