Dishonest Garage? Or they might be right...?

tgl3

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Hello all my friends!

Hope this thread finds everyone well! Last Monday, I was driving my C220 CDI COUPE (2011 Reg, C204) on the motorway. The car was all fine until the moment I was trying to overtake a car and hardly depress the gas. As soon as I depressed the gas and rev hit 3000 RPM, there were some "ka ka ka" rattling noise starting arisen from the engine! I never heard that weird noise before so for precaution I immediately reduced my speed and pull over at the hard-shoulder. AA roadside assistance was then called out and the mechanician couldn't fix the issue at the scene. So the car was then towed to a "AA Approved Garage" near my home waiting for diagnosis and repair at the next day (I have the AA Breakdown Repair Cover. To make a valid claim, the car must be repaired at one of AA Approved Garages. I used to repairs my car at different local garages).

On the next day morning, after OBD scanned over my car, the garage informed me that "Multiple air and pressure related faults stored, we will need further investigation to establish the issue." A £85 investigation cost was then charged and the investigation began. No update since then until the following day, I was told by the garage that " Air leak test completed, no faults found. Mercedes technical support have been contacted and have produced a test plan for the issue. Test plan followed and we have found an issue with the fuel delivery timing. The timing of the fuel delivery is predominantly controlled by the injectors and engine control unit. The next stage is to remove the injectors and send for independent testing. Price is for injector removal and testing, this process takes 3-5 days.". A further testing cost of £269 was requested. There's nothing I could do at this stage so I authorised the request and let the test went on.

No update since then until today. I have been updated with the following message: "ALL 4 injectors have failed, we have to wait for some more info but the testing company has said that the way they have failed suggests that the fuel delivery system may be contaminated and a foreign object has gone through and damaged the injectors. This isn't good news as it means we would need to strip the whole fuel system apart and it may be a worn high pressure fuel pump starting to break up. Once I have had more info I'll chat it through with thechnician and see what options we have. At the very least it will need 4 injectors...".

I am feeling really hopeless now... Not only because costs that definitely will be incurred has reached the mark of £1800; more unknown costs seems like be there waiting for me (The garage told me they need to "strip the whole fuel system apart"; costs will be incurred. If NEW high pressure fuel pump may required, £££ will be incurred... I have no idea about the fuel pump replacement cost but after searching on the internet it looks like pretty expensive...) :(

During the past year the car has underwent two repairs: during the first repair the Exhaust Back Pressure Sensor and the Boost Pressure Sensor for low-pressure turbocharger were replaced due to two error codes related to them. About two months after the first repair, one day the car suddenly dropped into limp model and EML went on; on that occasion two similar error codes were identified and the root cause of the codes was believed due to the faulty MAF sensor therefore the MAF sensor was replaced. The car ran like a dream since the second repair for half a year; no any broken down or faulty symptom until the last Monday.

The car has 140k mileage on clock. I always treat the car very well. Fuelled up it with BP Ultimate Fuel, service it as soon as its due, washed it regularly, and repairs it if any faulty symptom detected... I don't think if I caused the foreign object flowed into the fuel system. I do believe there's definitely something wrong with the car, because for all the three times broken down there were error codes related to the Back Pressure Sensor. BUT the question is: for this time is it really the fuel delivery system faulty? and are four injectors really ALL failed and needs to be replaced? I don't know if the garage is dishonest; the garage doesn't seems like have a good reputation and some reviews said the garage charged them for parts that's not necessarily to be replaced and tried to make more money. The previous two repairs costed me in average of £350 but for this time... Not anymore!

Any suggestions or ideas at this stage from all intelligent friends here? I am keen to hear some suggestions from third-parties about my situation:)

And thank you in advance for spending time reading my long story and all helps given:)

1.jpeg 8.jpeg 7.jpeg 6.jpeg 5.jpeg 2.jpeg 3.jpeg 4.jpeg
 
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Tuercas viejas

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Before doing anything ask for a copy of the injector test plan .
A Bosch FI test centre has 5 distinct tests to conduct on the injectors; where is the copy of the test(s), noting failures ?
In cases like this I/We always give the customer a written copy of the Bosch fuel shop contract out work, and the failure points, described in detail.
Looking at them, there is definitely some over fueling but when & how ?
For info, the crank sensor on start up cranking , shakes hands with the cam sensor , going "synchronization" in the ECM and the cam sensor sets the point of injection
The EBP sensor has a malfunction !
Is it plugged with carbon deposits , has it shorted at the telescopic electrical socket?
Both issues will cause an abrupt loss of power and a limp mode.
Then is the black smoke emitted by poor injection quality plugging up the EBP?
Back to the injection quality again and the test plan.
Need visuals and more verbals.
Tuercas Viejas
 
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tgl3

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Before doing anything ask for a copy of the injector test plan .
A Bosch FI test centre has 5 distinct tests to conduct on the injectors; where is the copy of the test(s), noting failures ?
In cases like this I/We always give the customer a written copy of the Bosch fuel shop contract out work, and the failure points, described in detail.
Looking at them, there is definitely some over fueling but when & how ?
For info, the crank sensor on start up cranking , shakes hands with the cam sensor , going "synchronization" in the ECM and the cam sensor sets the point of injection
The EBP sensor has a malfunction !
Is it plugged with carbon deposits , has it shorted at the telescopic electrical socket?
Both issues will cause an abrupt loss of power and a limp mode.
Then is the black smoke emitted by poor injection quality plugging up the EBP?
Back to the injection quality again and the test plan.
Need visuals and more verbals.
Tuercas Viejas
Thanks for suggestions:) No black smoke visualized at the point of breaking down and the EML didn't turn on. I didn't try to accelerate since the noise arisen so don't really know if the power loss existed. The only symptom I found at this time was the "Ka Ka Ka" disrupted noise from the engine, which was intermittent when engine loads up and persistent/obvious when engine is idle (according to the mechanic attended the breakdown recovery the noise seems from the camshaft). I'll ring the garage tomorrow morning and request them to send me the detailed report. To be honest its quite hard to reach them by phone. All calls towards them are received by a third-party call centre and they always promised the garage will call back soon which never happened!
 
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Tuercas viejas

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OK
Here's some thoughts !!
You experienced loss of power with distinct knocks
So is that a fuel knock or a mechanical knock ?
If the knock was appearing to come from the upper engine area it could quite feasibly be both.
Now from your photo posted, the shop is using Autologic (I/We have three of them in the shop) and they are showing you what is called a snapshot .
Its a very good shop diagnostic tool , meets Dealer level service .

So the task at hand is to base line the engine and determine if its mechanical or a fuel related condition .
Basic common industry practice is to pull the injectors and test them.

They appear to have done that!
If they came back failed ,the question is why did they fail abruptly ?
This is where the test results are useful, in fact really necessary with details.
If they are hosing badly or the tips are not atomizing fuel why is that? Begs the salient question?

Now the most common issue of abrupt contingent failure on this side of the pond is to down to the High Pressure Injection Pump (HPIP). Internal failures no less!.
In short, the pump starts to break up, shedding swarf into the rail(s) ending up in the injectors making the needles stick and in extreme cases cracking or blowing off the tips or injector sac.

This condition must be ruled out as job #1 and part of the engine base line IF the injectors show swarf contamination or excess wear. Again the test details almost tell all!
Any doubts in this area and we remove the HPIP and tear it down for examination.
The first thing to fail are the piston return springs, fragments/swarf get pumped into the rail & injectors.
Should this occur its a big clean out job! (Read $$$$$$.)

I suppose you really need to get some more info as explained and hopefully I have given you enough info to "talk turkey" with the shop techs.
When they pick up the phone.

You know on a separate topic it is said Americans and Brits are separated by common language , but I assure you in business practices Brits & Yanks are poles apart !
House rules in my shop!
All calls must be answered by the 3rd ring.
And the big American douzy in service situations, & the big Kahuna No No
If you don't answer the bloody phone you are NOT in business when the customer calls. :oops:
All the best
Tuercas Viejas



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jasonh

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I don't think your garage really knows what they are doing. They're not ripping you off as such, they just aren't really experienced and are just following the computer.

The fault codes are all STORED, I'm not sure about about Autologic but proper MB diagnostics have STORED and CURRENT. STORED means it happened at some point, STORED + CURRENT means it happened at some point and the fault is still present. It's possible all those codes are old (and therefore misleading).

Yes your injectors are dirty (and may be faulty) but they may just be a bit old. 140k miles in a diesel with short journeys will do that.

I'd ask for the injector test report and post it up here. It may be the high pressure fuel pump, it could be a blocked DPF...

Ideally the car needs to go to a MB specialist. They'll clear the codes, run the engine and go from there. Problem is your car is currently in pieces and you don't know if the old injectors should go back in or not.
 
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tgl3

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I don't think your garage really knows what they are doing. They're not ripping you off as such, they just aren't really experienced and are just following the computer.

The fault codes are all STORED, I'm not sure about about Autologic but proper MB diagnostics have STORED and CURRENT. STORED means it happened at some point, STORED + CURRENT means it happened at some point and the fault is still present. It's possible all those codes are old (and therefore misleading).

Yes your injectors are dirty (and may be faulty) but they may just be a bit old. 140k miles in a diesel with short journeys will do that.

I'd ask for the injector test report and post it up here. It may be the high pressure fuel pump, it could be a blocked DPF...

Ideally the car needs to go to a MB specialist. They'll clear the codes, run the engine and go from there. Problem is your car is currently in pieces and you don't know if the old injectors should go back in or not.
Thats exactly the point! I would really like to go to a MB specialist at this moment. But due to the conditions of my vehicle and lack of MB specialist in my local area, it looks like unfeasible to do that.

I rang the garage not long ago this morning, same as usual no call back so far. I'll drop them a message instead via their message panel to request the report.

All the situation now really rips me off:( Anyway thank you for your suggestions:)
 

Tuercas viejas

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I don't think your garage really knows what they are doing. They're not ripping you off as such, they just aren't really experienced and are just following the computer.

The fault codes are all STORED, I'm not sure about about Autologic but proper MB diagnostics have STORED and CURRENT. STORED means it happened at some point, STORED + CURRENT means it happened at some point and the fault is still present. It's possible all those codes are old (and therefore misleading).

Yes your injectors are dirty (and may be faulty) but they may just be a bit old. 140k miles in a diesel with short journeys will do that.

I'd ask for the injector test report and post it up here. It may be the high pressure fuel pump, it could be a blocked DPF...

Ideally the car needs to go to a MB specialist. They'll clear the codes, run the engine and go from there. Problem is your car is currently in pieces and you don't know if the old injectors should go back in or not.
Active/stored the program is set up the same as MB Xentry .
As I stated they are showing you a snap shot.
The tool will give you a read out of the issue when the car stopped/faulted out with active& stored code read outs.
TV
 

grober

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WHAT HAVE THE REPAIRS /DIAGNOSIS COST SO FAR? WHAT ARE THE PROJECTED FURTHER DIAGNOSIS/ REPAIR COSTS ---AND HOW MUCH REMAINS AN UNDETERMINED QUANTITY ?--- HOW MUCH IS A REPAIRED CLC AT 140 K MILES GOING TO BE WORTH--- YOU HAVE PERHAPS REACHED THE "DO THE MATH" POINT WITH THIS CAR ?
 
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tgl3

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WHAT HAVE THE REPAIRS /DIAGNOSIS COST SO FAR? WHAT ARE THE PROJECTED FURTHER DIAGNOSIS/ REPAIR COSTS ---AND HOW MUCH REMAINS AN UNDETERMINED QUANTITY ?--- HOW MUCH IS A REPAIRED CLC AT 140 K MILES GOING TO BE WORTH--- YOU HAVE PERHAPS REACHED THE "DO THE MATH" POINT WITH THIS CAR ?
The total costs so far is about £1800, but I assume there's going to be extra £500 works waiting for me. The question you're pointing out is also something I'm considering: if I decide to not repair it, who shall I sell the car and maximise its residual value? The garage? Or do you have any good recommendation? I'm clueless with these.
 

Petrol Pete

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It's a very hard call. This forum has many members who have spent more on their car than it can every be worth because they really like the car and want to kept it for a long time and turn a blind eye to the reality of the 'pounds and pence' . The question is how badly do you want to keep this car ? if the repairs come to £2.5K and you keep it 'forever' then it might all balance out for you .

By your own admission you are not a car DIY/technical person so you will always be paying someone to work on your car. While we are on the subject I think your problems started when your car was towed to a garage that the AA had picked out rather than one of your choosing, I appreciate my 20/20 hindsight is not helping but if you had taken it to a MB main dealer the costs would be much higher, so all is not bad.

I have no idea on the value of the car with a 'broken' engine sorry.
 

W1ghty

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Thats exactly the point! I would really like to go to a MB specialist at this moment. But due to the conditions of my vehicle and lack of MB specialist in my local area, it looks like unfeasible to do that.

I rang the garage not long ago this morning, same as usual no call back so far. I'll drop them a message instead via their message panel to request the report.

All the situation now really rips me off:( Anyway thank you for your suggestions:)
What about Mercland , they are just outside Birmingham
 
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tgl3

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What about Mercland , they are just outside Birmingham
I know that place and actually have been there once before. Its not actually close to me and due to the condition of my vehicle, its bit difficult to get there. But thanks for your suggestion anyway!
 

geoffus

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waiting for diagnosis and repair at the next day (I have the AA Breakdown Repair Cover. To make a valid claim, the car must be repaired at one of AA Approved Garages. I used to repairs my car at different local garages).
Can you make a claim for repairs from your AA cover ?
 
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tgl3

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Can you make a claim for repairs from your AA cover ?
Hi Geo, yes I can make a claim up to £500, subject to the AA's approval. I never tried to make a claim from them before, however based on others experience I think it shouldn't be a problem!
 

markjay

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I know that place and actually have been there once before. Its not actually close to me and due to the condition of my vehicle, its bit difficult to get there. But thanks for your suggestion anyway!
How much would cost to transport the car to Nuneaton? Maybe Jay can arrange recovery.
 

grober

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Stick your reg + DETAILS in here

Or have a look at prices on Autotrader
 
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