Divorce and bankruptcy - real world?

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

smillion

Active Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
904
Car
CLS350 CDI sport
A mate of mine (and no, this is not me I am glad to say) seperated with his wife after 15 years. The subsequent divorce is vicious, driven by the wife and her cut-throat solicitor.

Marital assets say £400k
Unsecured debts etc say £180k

Joint legal fees in last 9 months £65,000......:eek:

Her lawyer is insiting on 100% of the assets be passed to the wife with all the debt (and no assets) remaining with the husband.In additon, material monthly maintenance also payable (9 year lod daughter)

Seems extraordinary, but that is the way it is. A hearing tomorrow called FDR - no resolution likely and so goes to a very expensive (£15-20k) court hearing some months time, all of which comes out of the assets.

Mate wants to know what peoples' real lif experiences of going bankrupt. Not necessarily in theimportant first year, but post that year. i.e. practical realities perhaps of the stigma and credit history and being able to get credit; rent a house; lease a car etc etc

Basically, is their much life beyond bankruptcy for a self employed entreprenneur?

Thoughts welcome.

Marc
 
I'd like to know what he did to unleash that on him
 
Nothing, absolutely nothing. Came back from holiday; mother in law due to come and stay for 3 weeks house hunting; he said 2 sentences too much over supper and ended going to a Travelodge. She bolted the door and he's never beeen allowed back........................:confused:
 
Unbelievable, what a ***take her solicitor is on!
 
It's not good to be honest.

I'm a discharged bankrupt, I got caught by a company for a lot of money who in turn had been caught by their customer, at the time I was a sole trader that had grown very quickly and had not set up a Ltd company...it wiped me out overnight, big mistake.

Firstly it bothers me there's just a single one size fits all category so I'm lumped in with all the idiots that bought too many 50" flat panel tellies and went on too many holidays on the credit cards. I'd like to see business and stupidity categories...or similar. But right now there isn't.

Obvious ramifications:-

You cannot be a director of a company until you are discharged (that'll be 12 months) it is not advisable to be a shareholder of business for the follwing three years as the official reciever can claim assets after the event for a period of 36 months from bankruptcy.

You cannot obtain a credit line of more than £500 whilst you are bankrupt (before being discharged) that'll be 12 months. If you exceed the £500 during this time it can carry a custodial sentence.

You will lose all your assets that have any meaningful amount of equity.

You will lose all vehciles unless it's a tool of the trade.

Anything on finance will be removed by the relevant finance company.

You will not qualify for any finance agreement whatsoever in your own name, you will not be able to lease or contract hire vehicles, you will not even be able to rent a vehicle without a large deposit and payment in full up front.

Renting a house will be payment in full up front (usually 6 months rent) with the next 6 months being due at then end of month 4.

It is not in the interest of the company that you hold a directorship for the 6 years following bankruptcy (unless the company doesn't need any finance facilities whatsoever - including bank accounts).

You will not be able to hold a credit card with any meaningful limit for 6 years.

You will struggle to get any form of bank account.

You will not be able to obtain any government contracts for the following 6 years.

You will be able to obtain a mortgage if you have a huge deposit i.e. 50% equity. Where the equity is meant to have come from is anyones guess.

I've also been divorced but mine was amicable. I've had two freinds in a similar situation to your friend where the wife approach ridiculously aggressive laywers.

One capitualted and lost 75% of everything for a quick settlement. There were no kids involved - would you believe she even got maintainance...No idea how that worked.

The second made it clear He would rather sit in the street homeless and consume every penny available in legal costs until there was nothing left. At which point there would also be nothing for maintainance as he'd be jobless too.

This actually worked and they got a sensible deal.

The courts are actually now geared up for everything being sensibly split, the days of 100% of everything going to one party are gone, it's quite different now.

They are tyring to bully him into a settlement, by threatening 100% and aiming for 75% or similar leaving him with something.

That works unless the bluff is called and if he's considering bankruptcy then he has nothing to lose, I'd play it all the way so the spiteful bitch got nothing but the money grubbing laywer got more wealthy.

Any questions fire away, the embarrasment factor of this has worn off with me now.
 
Last edited:
Unsecured debts etc say £180k:eek:

should that be secured debt ie mortgage or is that 180k on credit cards, car loans and personal loans?
 
........ he needs to move back in, its his house and his child too. T Shirt, film, book and return ticket.
Solicitors are for themselves, they turn ordinary folk who would normally be able to deal with things amicably amongst themselves into vultures.

If you are going to use a solicitor, arrange a meeting at the SOONEST opportunity with a VERY reputable barrister to get things straight from the start. Different solicitors will tell you different and sometimes conflicting strategies. The sooner you have a barrister involved, the less it will cost in the long run.

Sadly, family courts are very 'female' biased, this is very wrong but nobody ever challenges it. Why should she take everything? Why should the child live with her? Are you less able than her to meet the childs needs?
Any debt outstanding should also be shared,

I wish your friend the best of luck.
 
I was involved as an Expert Witness (property values) on a Divorce Case. The money that was spent must have been incredible, as it was only settled on the Court steps of Leeds High Court.

If the lawyers have got carried away he does need to get them reined in quick to stand a chance I would think.
 
If he is true to his word, she's pumping someone else.
 
Good advice above engage the services of a barrister and take her on at her own game if he has the balls for it but you could be looking at serious money (but he has already) decent Barristers court time on a case would be around £500 / hour but this pales into insignificance as you cannot engage the services of a barrister direct but have to do it through a solicitor and thats where the bills start racking up, a decent solicitor engaging the services of a barrister and you are looking about £3k per day including preparation time, court appearance etc.
 
On the first instant of a divorce, if you are sensible, settle out of court and DIY. Don't ever employ a solicitor. If you do, you end up giving a blank cheque to a solicitor. An hour solicitor court appearance will cost you at least £100 plus VAT.

Let things cool down and settle amiciably, if you can't, forget your partner and find a new one.:D
 
Thank you, especially to Mudster. I am passing that on word for word, very insightful.

For the others with a view on legal representation; the £65k that is spent to date is indeed a mix of barristers and lawyers; when the other side make certain claims and want to enter court you have to play the game and effectively match the spend. It escalates.

Thanks again Mudster

Marc
 
Strange. A mother in law comment leads to this. More of an excuse than a real reason. I bet she's been seeing someone for a while and is just using this for an excuse. I personally would rather spend every penny fighting than let her have it. So don't let your mate be bullied.
 
I too thought along similar lines to crockers - it's just too flimsy. Possible that stuff could be going on from either end behind the scenes that you aren't aware of, maybe he's too embarrassed? A friend of mine has a cousin that similar was happening to (although not the same financial level!!). When everything eventually came out in the wash, it turned out that the cousin, who my mate knew very very well, had been going out "on the heath" so to speak, and in the dark approached one of his neighbours who was out walking the dog. The neighbour was not that way inclined.....So it is possible you might not know the full facts leading up to the kickoff.

Al that said, IMHO blame does not equal the right to more than half of joint assets, and half of joint debts, it just does not matter a jot to me. It's hardly a "compensation zone".
Tell him to man-up, but also to ensure stability for the child and to wherever possible shield her from what is going on. Kids as a weapon is almost always the way, but you have to protect them as they're all that really matters.

I wonder if she was ***ging a solicitor....... ?
 
During my divorce 7 years ago, I disovererd the harsh realities of the "state" of our current world. The father/husband gets nothing. If he's lucky he'll get some of his assets/money, I managed 25% of profits from house sale, plus my posessions. My ex got the rest, plus custody of my daughter.

The best bit of advise I got was to with drawn money from a cashline machine, not a huge amount, enough for you to "reasonably live from" and stash it away somewhere, give to a good friend/parents or something. You're entitled to with draw money to live from and once withdrawn they can't trace it and may become very useful later on down the line.

Also payments for his daughter, involve the CSA. Makes everything above board but expect to lose up to 25% of your take home pay each month, the CSA web site has a calculator to work out how much it will cost you.

By far and away the bigger issue here your friend seeing his daughter. Absolutely nothing else matters. Make sure he does his utmost to keep in contact with his Daughter. She needs to know that her daddy is there.

Beyond that pray that her mother lets their daughter see her daddy and if not then be around to pick up the pieces and pray that he comes out the other side. A bit grim I know but I speak from experience.
 
65,000 on legal fees... this is rubbish.

He should consider a different tack, forget arguing over who did what with the lawyers, it is all immaterial and just racks up large bills.

The relationship is over, finances/children need sorting out - the rest is totally irrelevant.

Consider what is fair and what is manageable now and in the future and stick to it. The only reason why you need lawyers to come to an agreement is because as each poisonous lawyers letter is written it drives a giant wedge between both parties making it impossible to sit round the table and come to a civilised agreement like adults (that once loved and respected each other should).

Given the current ridiculously one sided suggestion of 100% of the assets, If she wants to play that game, if it were me, I'd be tempted to just go and lie on a beach in Bali for 5 years or so without leaving a forwarding address. She'll not get her hands on any assets until you return - by which time she will probably have calmed down and be a great deal more amenable to working out a fair and amicable solution without involving lawyers.
 
Last edited:
Thank you, especially to Mudster. I am passing that on word for word, very insightful.

For the others with a view on legal representation; the £65k that is spent to date is indeed a mix of barristers and lawyers; when the other side make certain claims and want to enter court you have to play the game and effectively match the spend. It escalates.

Thanks again Mudster

Marc

There are ways around these things of course, but the people that help you have to be very trusting and you also have to be able to trust them implicitly.

I got a mortgage at 2 years post bankruptcy, but that was just before the financial world imploded - also the LTV is only 30% or so.

Vanquis will give you a credit card at silly interest rates - maximum limit £1250 - pay it in full every month! It's just an item to start repairing credit.

Everything else I have to get through the business or via friends and relatives fronting (legally) for the finance.

At 6 years the Bankruptcy drops off your credit history and you start again....but even then it's not easy as you'll have effectively had a 6 year void in your credit history and no credit history is as bad as a bad credit history as far as lenders are concerned.

Avoid it if you can, but if there's no option there are ways to work around it.
 
Your mate is facing THREE separate issues.


  1. Divorce - split of assets
  2. Child - contact and residence
  3. Money - future child maintenance and alimony

One poster said "get back in the house", well, your mate should never have left, but since he did, the reality is he can't get back in.

Tell your mate to go out RIGHT NOW and buy a digital voice recorder (Olympus vn-6800pc is good, £55) and carry it 24/7 and record EVERYTHING contact wise with the STBX (soon to be ex)

Tell your mate he is one lie (on her part) away from a non-molestation order, an injunction (with arrest for breach) or arrest on suspicion of domestic violence or alleged sexual offences against either the wife or even his own daughter.

Tell your mate that the sooner he wakes up and realises that the STBX has declared war on him, everything he has, and everything he was, the better, if he is lucky it won't go "nuclear" with allegations of sexual offences, but many do, more than anyone who doesn't live and work in the civil / family court system would believe.

Tell your mate that given the fact that it has already consumed vast amounts of money, his only option now is razed earth, burn up every last penny on the top legal team he can get, DO NOT GO BANKRUPT VOLUNTARILY, it will be used against you, character wise, come contact / residence of the child time.

Tell your mate to start thinking about a new life, starting from scratch, this time working for himself, not for some poisonous bitch, maybe abroad.

Tell your mate to find and go to a local meeting of Fathers for Families, where he will get the straight skinny from people who have been there, done that, got the tee shirt (and no, they are not all psycho misogynists) because what your mate needs more than anything else is the company and companionship of comrades who understand.

Ask me how I know.... I'm a year into mine, I wasn't accused of satanic worship or human sacrifice, but that was about it. The fact that I was totally innocent and therefore there could be no evidence of the insane, self-contradictory, mutually exclusive and bat **** crazy accusations is neither here nor there when it comes to the police or courts, they will of course, eventually, find you innocent of everything you have been accused of, but by then two years have passed and frankly everything worth saving is as long gone as last winter's snow.

The most important reason for getting a top, expensive, legal team is not to burn through all the assets though, it is not even to have them prove you innocent of everything you have been accused of so far, and will be accused of in future as the case develops... it is so that they can take the mental strain while you concentrate on staying sane and not giving the other side any further ammunition. Your mate has the joys of a CAFCASS interview or three on the horizon, etc etc etc.

I was listening to the news last night, Raul Moat, oh yeah, the talking head experts say, he covertly recorded conversations, he used cctv to generate alibis as to his whereabouts, so he is clearly paranoid insane... it ain't paranoia if the *******s are out to get you, and once your STBX goes down that particular path then trust me, someone is out to get you.

Moreover, these are exactly the steps that a top legal team will advise you to take, that and of course NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND WHATSOEVER WITH THE STBX.

hth etc
 
Last edited:
Tell your mate to go out RIGHT NOW and buy a digital voice recorder (Olympus vn-6800pc is good, £55) and carry it 24/7 and record EVERYTHING contact wise with the STBX (soon to be ex)

...

and of course NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND WHATSOEVER WITH THE STBX.
:confused::dk:
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom