DOCTORS OR TRAINS

[Tonye]

Im with the Doc, don't really use the over priced rail non service, where are you on this.

 

[Neiltodd]

Neither, both looking for ridiculous pay rises, and the Docs get phenomenal pensions which those of us in private pensions can only dream of which is never mentioned.

 

[ChrisHGTV]

Neither, both looking for ridiculous pay rises.

Agree, no sympathy with either. The Doctors in particular are making ridiculous demands.

 

[Tonye]

So you think £15 an hour is enough for a junior working there bits off looking after god knows what on there own all night, i was on more than that plodding around in a wagon.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Struggle to see why GPs on an average of £122k a year for a 3-4 day week "need" such a huge increase, when they're already on more than the majority of European doctors. Guaranteed job for life, with high status and excellent benefits.

And don't believe the "well we'll clear off to Australia or the States then" argument. They don't. It's harder than it looks to get a job and to leave family behind on the other side of the world. Their hours may seem softer, but actually the pressure's much greater, as evidenced by the medical suicide rates in both Oz and the States.

Train drivers? Different kettle of fish. Unionised closed shop that's hard for outsiders to enter. Skillset is not significant. The Union leaders are out to protect one of the last laughable Trades Union strongholds. "Save the Dinosaurs !"

 

[Tonye]

GPs on an average of £122k a year for a 3-4 day week "need" such a huge increase

I must agree, but the juniors are another matter if we are going to keep them before they look into other options.

 

[Tonye]

Skillset is not significant

Just a wagon on rails, don't even steer the thing so why so much pay.

 

[markjay]

I have sympathy for the doctors, because junior doctors work very very hard with not much to show for it - it's a bit like solicitors, 'modern slavery' during the first years in the hope that one day you'll become a consultantl/partner and buy yourself a 911 with a vanity plate - but only very few make it.

I can't comment on rail workers, although historically this is a sector where workers used to go on strike often, which makes me think that industrial action may simply be in their DNA - it comes with the territory when you have powerful unions who like to flex their muscles from time to time. But, then again, perhaps on this occasion they are actually right - I don't know.

That been said... I have an issue with the notion of 'restoration to pre-inflation psy'. Inflation occurrs when the value of money goes down, or in other words there's too much money out there and naturally it looses its buying power. This usually happens when too much money is being printed aka "quantitative easing", but it can also happen when prices go up for unrelated reasons - food, energy , etc - now your money buys less food or energy than it did before. Central Banks deal with inflation by absorbing some of the 'excess' cash back from the public, thus restoring the money's value.

Employees naturally demand a pay increas to compensate for inflation - no one wants to be worse off. But if the government and private employers keep giving employees inflation-related pay rises, then they are frustrating the Bank of England's efforts to combat inflation, and in fact fuel it further which can lead to a dangerous situation where inflation spirals out of control. When this happens, people lose faith in the currently, and go back to bartering, or use foreign currency (e.g. Dollars) instead, meaning that the government now lost all control of the economy.

The way to deal with inflation is obviously not buy telling people to go 'cold turkey' - "Sorry people, you're money now buys you leass than before, deal with it", which will lead to much unrest and industrial action, but it is equally wrong to keep compensating for inflation in full because it only makes things worse. Instead, employees should get pay rises that are below current inflation, this way the money will be absorbed back gradually and over time, slowly bringing inflation figures back down.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Just a wagon on rails, don't even steer the thing so why so much pay.

In their defence, the hours are usually awkward, the work's hypnotic and the safety responsibility is significant, even with modern tech. And it's depressing when you have to help collect and wipe off the bits off the front when the inevitable happens.

But it is a closed shop, a trade that many would like to enter, but are blocked because they're not family or connected. Hard to justify in this day and age.

 

[Tonye]

And it's depressing when you have to help collect and wipe off the bits off the front when the inevitable happens.

Did that for years with my mates in the red ne nor, always had bin bags on board. Not much pay though in the 80s.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I must agree, but the juniors are another matter if we are going to keep them before they look into other options.

Medicine has always been a vocation. A vocation where those at the top of the pile have always rigorously thrown aside anyone who's not up to 'snuff." That's why they don't have health technicians in the GP's equipped to handle that 60% of the work that's very routine.

Why should doctors in the UK be paid so much more than medics in Europe, bar Switzerland and Belgium where they don't train enough themselves?

What kind of profession is it where people can just turn up three days a week? Because they don't want to pay higher rate tax & NI, or because they prefer to be home for the kids on Fridays and in the School holidays?

The rhetoric that they're all saving lives is dubious, when the 30 year old at your local GP is mainly handing out pharma and advice sheets to people with a very limited range of problems, helped by her screen-based checklists of questions to ask.

 

[Tonye]

What kind of profession is it where people can just turn up three days a week

Is that the reward for the pain at the start.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Did that for years with my mates in the red ne nor, always had bin bags on board. Not much pay though in the 80s.

Ah, but the hours, the side gigs, and the lady admirers !

Every "rider of the red ne nor" I've ever met has always had an interesting life.

 

[Tonye]

As for pay increases, i can remember ( just about ) in the mid 70s getting 19% when i was an apprentice gardener with Mankchester parks, i was a millionaire that week.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Is that the reward for the pain at the start.

It's the reward for being a civil servant.

Even French doctors turn up five days a week.

OK, they may smell of alcohol after their lunch break at the local restaurant, but doesn't everyone?

 

[Tonye]

Ah, but the hours, the side gigs, and the lady admirers !

And the beds on night shift

 

[DrNick]

As far as trains go, I think it’s the last hurrah for drivers. If any job is ripe for automation it’s train drivers. For everyone other than drivers, it’s got a lot going for it.
One of the issues stopping more capacity on the trains is the need to have reasonable gaps between trains. A lot of this is due to legacy stuff linked to drivers being in control. The other issues are also legacy - can’t have double height trains due to old Victorian railway bridges and can’t have longer trains due to station platforms.
The unions are doing a good job though but in this case they are flogging an old (iron) horse.

Doctors, I have a bit more sympathy with but don’t know enough to have a strong opinion.

 

[markjay]

Medicine has always been a vocation. A vocation where those at the top of the pile have always rigorously thrown aside anyone who's not up to 'snuff." That's why they don't have health technicians in the GP's equipped to handle that 60% of the work that's very routine.

Why should doctors in the UK be paid so much more than medics in Europe, bar Switzerland and Belgium where they don't train enough themselves?

What kind of profession is it where people can just turn up three days a week? Because they don't want to pay higher rate tax & NI, or because they prefer to be home for the kids on Fridays and in the School holidays?

The rhetoric that they're all saving lives is dubious, when the 30 year old at your local GP is mainly handing out pharma and advice sheets to people with a very limited range of problems, helped by her screen-based checklists of questions to ask.

True, but I think that GPs who are partners in established GP practices are in a different category to junior doctors working in NHS hospitals, though.

 

[markjay]

As for pay increases, i can remember ( just about ) in the mid 70s getting 19% when i was an apprentice gardener with Mankchester parks, i was a millionaire that week.

When you have rampant inflation, everyone becomes a millionaire, but it's not a good thing....

 

[Darrell]

Mate of mine worked on the railways but the money wasn’t that good so he did the knowledge and became a taxi driver.