Does anyone use VOGTLAND 952079 springs on C43 AMG?

Discussion in 'Wheels, Tyres, Brakes & Suspension' started by noogieman, Oct 6, 2011.

  1. noogieman

    noogieman Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I'm curious if someone is using Vogtland springs on their european C43 AMG?
    These springs are not sold for C43 in europe but are sold in the US for C43? :dk:

    Vogtland Sportfedern Mercedes C W202 T 6 Zyl. | eBay

    I don't understand why german company Vogtland doesn't offer these springs for C43 in europe when they are sold on North American market for C43?

    Could it be because european version of C43 is heavier with more options and the springs can't handle the extra weight?
    Axle load on front springs handles 970kg each
    Axle load on rear springs handles 1150kg each
    How much does OEM springs handle?

    Yankeeees says these springs are great for C43 and H&R sucks?
    I wanna drop my car a bit with Vogtland springs and new shox from KONI yellow adjustable versions.

    Do you recommend Koni yellow shox?

    Do I get wrong rebound absorb geometry if I use OEM AMG/Bilstein shox and aftermarket lowering springs because original shox are to tall compared to shorter springs?
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  2. BlackC55

    BlackC55 Authorised Forum Sponsor Authorised Forum Sponsor

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    I have driven a few C43's but none with those springs you mention.

    We fit H&R springs and the Bilstein short shocks (B8) and they handle and ride very well.

    I can get you a very good price on the kit.
     
  3. DRBC43AMG

    DRBC43AMG Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Hi Olly,
    Can you sent me a quote for the same set-up by PM? :thumb:
    Also, is there a way to identify the age of springs and shocks? My 43 could be stiffened up specially in corners. I find there is some body roll which could be eliminated without going to different anti-roll bars.
     
  4. Alps

    Alps MB Club Veteran

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    if i bought another w202, first thing i would do is h&r springs and either bilstiens or koni shocks.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    noogieman

    noogieman Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    thanks 4 the offer bro. :rock:
    So I heard from another german forumbuddy who said B8 shox never was designed for C43??
    Aftermarket shox should fit most cars and C43?

    I'll let you know about the offer
    thanks
     
  6. OP
    OP
    noogieman

    noogieman Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    your C fou-3 is getting old so is you pops. ;)
    here's no fresh meat nomore :wallbash:

    time will detoriate anything
    we drive the same cars, my car also have some bodyroll, I'm buying all new rear suspension components, then it's teim for shox and springs when my wallet is thick enuff.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  7. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    Here's a little background from a VWVortex forum:thumb: thread courtesy of a guy in the US who works for Neuspeed. From what he says VOGTLAND should be fine.
    quote:-
    Okay guys, before this thread gets totally out of hand with typical internet half-truths, let's go to spring school here. But first, let me explain my connection to the spring manufacturers in question.

    In 1988, Bob Dyer, Roland Graef and I were the original start-up team for Eibach USA, along with Dave Harlow and a handfull of machining/warehouse guys. Bob previously worked for Autotech, and before that, worked for NEUSPEED. Roland previously worked for Zender. And I had worked for NEUSPEED alongside Bob.

    In 1990, we recruited Richard Jonec from Kaufmann Engineering to join the Eibach team. That same year, Bob Dyer left Eibach to pursue other interests.

    In 1992, Roland Graef left Eibach to work for NEUSPEED. While at NEUSPEED, he started up a program for NEUSPEED to import H&R springs to the USA.

    In 1995, I left Eibach to join ITT KONI and at the end of 1997, I returned to NEUSPEED, 13 years after my original employment here in 1984.

    In 1997 Roland Graef left NEUSPEED to start H&R's U.S. headquarters in Bellvue, Washington. Sometime during this same period, Richard Jonec left Eibach and after a stint with a commercial manufacturer in Indiana, started Vogtland USA, headquartered in Temecula, California. And, following Roland's departure from NEUSPEED, we terminated our spring winding agreement with H&R and began working with JP Grueber GmbH, a commercial coiling company in Hagen, Germany that was highly recommended by KONI and Bilstein.

    Roland Graef (H&R), Richard Jonec (Vogtland), and I (NEUSPEED) have extensive knowledge about each other's manufacturing process, equipment, materials, etc, as well as extensive knowledge about Eibach since all of us worked there for quite some time.

    Now let's answer the question about spring sag.
    Eibach, H&R, Neuspeed & Vogtland all use a very high tensile strength Chrome Silicon (CrSi) spring wire for all springs under approximately 16-18mm in diameter. Springs over this diameter are made with Chrome Vanadium (CrVa) wire, but this does not apply to VW or Audi applications since none of those springs exceed 18mm in wire thickness.

    Every spring has a specific fatigue life, i.e. the number of times it can cycle to full coil bind on a test rig before it starts to lose free height. When the spring finally fatigues, the spring rate is unchanged. Only the overall length of the spring is affected. Typically the fatigue life from any of the companies in question here is 500,000 to 1,000,000 cycles to complete coil bind.

    One of the most popular winding machines used by all the companies in question is the Wafios coiling machine. Eibach and Wafios are two separate companies!!! Wafios makes the coiling machine, and each spring company usually modifies the machine to suit their own needs. The most popular model of the Wafios coiler is the FUL-10.

    After a CrSi spring is coiled, it goes into a tempering oven for heat treatment. When it comes out of the tempering oven, the ends of the spring may need grinding if the O.E. spring had one or both ends flat, not round. After grinding, all springs go into a line-feed shot peening machine. Shot peening is another stress equalizing step in the process. After shot peening, the springs go onto a setting press. The setting press is what gives the spring its free length "memory," i.e. the ability to return to the same extended length every time it is compressed and released.

    The pre-setting machines literally squashes the spring to full coil bind under a load of 1-2 metric tons. This load exceeds the original designed load capacity of the spring. As a result, the spring comes out of the pre-setting machine slightly shorter than when it first went in. But this change in height was part of the engineering process.

    From this point, the springs typically go out for surface treatment: a phosphate bath followed by power coating.

    Eibach, H&R, Vogtland and NEUSPEED/GRUEBER all use the same procedure! So, sagging is not an issue for any of these companies products until the spring exceeds its originally-specified cycle life.

    Thank you for listening.

    Best Regards
    Greg Woo
    NEUSPEED

     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  8. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    Here's a FUL-10 making springs for Lesjofors according to the caption - who incidentally make aftermarket springs for Mercedes [ not that the video necessarily depicts that- just one of the many springs they make.] The coil winding process seems to be pretty generic for every manufacturer its what happens after the coil is wound that counts.[YOUTUBE]3nCpOSc18oc&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
     
  9. OP
    OP
    noogieman

    noogieman Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    thanx for the info grober :thumb:

    I guess I will buy Vogtland springs 952079 although they are not specifically made for c43 in europe.
    german fleabay price is cheap on these springs
     

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