Does being FWD as opposed to RWD put you off the new A class?

[RMS]

i think to beat a golf , mb needed to offer something different . they have offered a good looking car that is less spacious and not rwd. the car doesn't seem to be doing too well in comparison tests either ie it's not winning

 

[grober]

i think to beat a golf , mb needed to offer something different . they have offered a good looking car that is less spacious and not rwd. the car doesn't seem to be doing too well in comparison tests either ie it's not winning

It would appear that the Mercedes A class is " par for the course" in that its competitive with the BMW 1 series and the new AUDI A3[ shortly to be strengthened by the addition of its 5 door sportback] To be really successful in a market you need to offer something new or different, apart from "enhanced internet connectivity" I not sure the A Class succeeds in this respect unless they are relying on the "lure of the badge" thing Problem is I don't know if this cuts so much ice in this market sector as the big sedans. Its possible the coupe and crossover derivatives may have more success.

 

[Bellow]

Would RWD actually harm sales?

Yes. And Grober's post#32 tells why.
People notice a lack of leg room, boot space and fuel capacity.

Grober, thing is, that on demand 4wd system has a drive shaft going to the back, so the space element is lost. So if the car has been designed to take it, then it can take RWD as the design is in place.

And the gearbox goes - where?

 

[gIzzE]

I find it unbelievable , and I have friends who say this, that they can't tell the difference between a fwd car and a rwd car.

I don't, I am in retail and sell clothing at the higher end, so always see customers arriving in new metal, being a car lover I always ask them what they think of their new car.
I get replies of people in Mercs and BMWs saying things like "Ooh, it's very nice to drive, it just seems to go exactly where you point it."
Then you get someone swap their BMW for a new Audi and they say "Ooh, I love the car and the interior but doesn't drive as nice as my old one."

These people have got absolutely no idea that one is RWD and one is FWD, but they can feel the difference.
If someone explained why BMW use RWD and this is what they are noticing they may consider the drive train next time they purchase.

I hate to admit it, but I didn't get the difference between FWD and RWD, after numerous Audis I bought a 3 series, loved it, but missed the banter on the Audi forums and so went back to Audi after the BMW. I really didn't like it, thought it was because it was a 2 litre diesel, so swapped for the 2.5tdi, still didn't like it, so swapped for the 3 litre petrol, still didn't get on with it.
Then the guy with the Ford dealership said "You probably just prefer the balance of a RWD car, that is why although I sell Fords all day I always buy Mercedes."
I had never even thought about FWD vs RWD before that.
I swapped my 3 litre A4 for a 2 litres BMW diesel, I was back.
It was not about going fast, it was just that balance that made it feel so good.

Went back to Audi a few times, still like them, but after a few weeks I find them very dull, and end up back in a BMW or Merc.

I think the fact is, us guys on the forum, love and understand cars and believe it or not we are in the minority. If Merc is going to survive and still make the mad c63 and SLS etc, they have to appeal to the mainstream. Unfortunately for us, the A class does this.

Understanding your car is FWD or RWD does make a difference, you get why your car has torque steer or scrabbles to pull away at a junction, or you have to fight the understeer round fast corners, but most people don't think of it being a RWD or FWD issue, just a case of that is what brand x drives like.

 

[Bellow]

One of the beauty's of RWD is the steering does not have to contend with drive and hence compromise geometry with anti torque steer measures. A greater freedom for the steering/chassis engineer to maximise accuracy and feel.

 

[st4]

One of the beauty's of RWD is the steering does not have to contend with drive and hence compromise geometry with anti torque steer measures. A greater freedom for the steering/chassis engineer to maximise accuracy and feel.

Which do you not feel on a car selling itself on sportiness would be an advantage? I think MBs missed a trick that BMW have pulled off. If BMW can make RWD work in their hatch, MB should too.

 

[Bellow]

Which do you not feel on a car selling itself on sportiness would be an advantage?

Target market is either too old to care about good steering or too young to know what it is. The previous A-Class had diabolical steering and no one (but me) cared.

I think MBs missed a trick that BMW have pulled off. If BMW can make RWD work in their hatch, MB should too.

You seem to have forgotten that BMW are away to launch a 1-Series with FWD.
Anyway, why must MB ape BMW? That's not MB's history.

 

[st4]

You seem to have forgotten that BMW are away to launch a 1-Series with FWD.
Anyway, why must MB ape BMW? That's not MB's history.

And that BMW will not be as good....

I think here, MB have to have a USP, ever other premium rival does. The Audi the interior quality, the BMW the RWD, the Mercedes with its marketing is aping the BMW dynamic appeal, and yet its falling so wide of the mark. The Volvo has the safety card, what does MB have other than a bling grill for their rival? Oh, £300pm or so lease deals....

Mercedes deliberately marketed the car as sporty and fun, and set the car to be very firm. RWD would have put it in the running of being the dynamic class leader. BMW draws on the efficiency dynamics and competive engines for low consumption and road tax. Mercedes need to tap into the dynamic part.

They could have alternatively made the car a luxury option with softer suspension and then the FWD/RWD wouldn't matter. As it is, its a real nothing car bar quite stylish

 

[gIzzE]

They could have alternatively made the car a luxury option with softer suspension and then the FWD/RWD wouldn't matter. As it is, its a real nothing car bar quite stylish

I think they will get a lot of folk trying it, and even many buying it (as most in the UK don't bother to test drive a car before parting with £20-50,000 on a car, how it looks is enough!) but I think a lot of people will be surprised at just how firm it is.
The guy at Mercedes Norwich was saying the ride quality is the first thing everyone mentions, and it is not positive. The 1 series was the same, but because it was so impressive dynamically, everyone forgave the over firm ride.

I reckon Mercedes will soften the A Class up a bit before it gets a facelift, or add Elegance back into the range with a softer set up.

 

[st4]

I think they will get a lot of folk trying it, and even many buying it (as most in the UK don't bother to test drive a car before parting with £20-50,000 on a car, how it looks is enough!) but I think a lot of people will be surprised at just how firm it is.
The guy at Mercedes Norwich was saying the ride quality is the first thing everyone mentions, and it is not positive. The 1 series was the same, but because it was so impressive dynamically, everyone forgave the over firm ride.

I reckon Mercedes will soften the A Class up a bit before it gets a facelift, or add Elegance back into the range with a softer set up.

A soft set up will give it a USP, a luxury one. Its just not the USP MB wanted.

The bit in bold is what to take away re this thread IMHO, worded in one sentance what I couldn't do in paragraphs

 

[JimboDS]

They have a review in this month's Car where they test it against the A3 and Golf. The A class was ranked third but they said it was the most sporty and entertaining to drive. If they are going for younger drivers then maybe they've got it right. Maybe.

Shame car didn't include the 1 series in that test.

I've still not seen one in the metal but I think I like it. Certainly appeals more to me than a Golf, A3 or 1 series though none of those cars appeal to me particularly! Am sad it's not RWD but I can understand why it isn't.

 

[LTD]

If they are going for younger drivers then maybe they've got it right. Maybe.

Seems that they are looking at the young couple with a young, or impending, family according to the dealer I was at this evening.

Apparently it's an attempt to lower the average age of MB owners.

 

[gIzzE]

I think it will become Mercedes best selling car, however, on the BMW forums the initial comments went from "My that looks tasty, I can't believe I am considering a Mercedes" when the first images etc. came out to "Hmmm, won't be bothering with a test of that." when it became clear it was FWD. So although it will attract loads of new customers, grabbing the real enthusiasts I can't see happening.

 

[LTD]

So although it will attract loads of new customers, grabbing the real enthusiasts I can't see happening.

Maybe a C45 would ......

(just thinking out loud ......)

 

[st4]

Maybe a C45 would ......

(just thinking out loud ......)

M135i. Turbo I6 RWD car for a snip under £30k or a 4pot turbo hatch that has a front biased 4wd system.

They'll be queuing the BMW dealers!!!

 

[Bellow]

M135i. Turbo I6 RWD car for a snip under £30k or a 4pot turbo hatch that has a front biased 4wd system.

They'll be queuing the BMW dealers!!!

It may benefit you to realise not everyone wants the same from their car as you do.

Headline performance at a reasonable purchase price doesn't guarantee low running costs re insurance, tax, fuel, tyres, etc - which is the preference for many.

BTW. Transverse FWD is inherently more efficient than longitudinal RWD - something MB are no doubt aware of. Ditto the concept of cutting a C-Class to whatever size you think appropriate. In the real engineering world it just isn't that simple.

 

[Will]

It may benefit you to realise not everyone wants the same from their car as you do.

This is my point too. *** is focussing this entire thread on the driving dynamics as a black/white issue of front/rear drive - as if it's the single biggest concern for the majority of people buying an A-class. MB aren't silly, they'll have done their research and made decisions for specific reasons - even as a RWD fan I can appreciate this.

Steve - why not accept that although you prefer RWD that many people simply won't care - most cars are FWD and they sell plenty of them day in day out. The old A-class was FWD and this wasn't really a stumbling block for sales.

It's too late to moan now anyway, they're already making them Expect to still see plenty on the roads, regardless of the driven wheels

Everyone's different and we all like different things. A-class isn't for me but what does it matter

 

[st4]

Bellow, Will

I put a poll up for that very reason?

RWD is still ahead of the game. Seemingly, on MBClub, the majority would like it to be rear driven.

My feeling is it hasn't got a USP. Its seemingly not that comfortable or luxurious, which as its gone the FWD route, they might as well have made it softer and more comfortable to stand out more from the other car makers cars

 

[BTB 500]

I put a poll up for that very reason?

The poll needed an option for 'not bothered' IMHO. As mentioned the A (and B) class M-Bs have always been FWD and have sold pretty well. I really doubt that most of the target market would care. Many years ago my dad bought a new Passat estate and didn't know whether it was FWD or RWD!

From a personal POV we've got two RWDs and one FWD at the moment. I would class myself as a fairly keen driver and am very happy driving our Audi. When there's snow etc. about there's no question about which one we go out in! The replacement for the Audi will be FWD too.

 

[Will]

Bellow, Will

I put a poll up for that very reason?

RWD is still ahead of the game. Seemingly, on MBClub, the majority would like it to be rear driven.

My feeling is it hasn't got a USP. Its seemingly not that comfortable or luxurious, which as its gone the FWD route, they might as well have made it softer and more comfortable to stand out more from the other car makers cars

Yep - but IMHO the poll is of little value for a few reasons:

1) This is an 'enthusiast's' forum. I don't expect as many typical A-class buyers to have voted. There's probably more C63 drivers on this forum than A-class owners!

2) There's no 'don't really care either way' option

3) The question is pretty black/white - ie RWD or FWD 'preferred'. It doesn't consider any of the reasons behind those choices - ie purchase price, cabin space etc. it's like saying I prefer Espresso over instant coffee or fresh fruit juice over cartons - I obviously prefer the former but sometimes for a particular budget or in practical terms the other could be an obvious popular choice for the mainstream consumer.

I don't really see the point of much further debate, as it's all done and dusted and well into production now. They'll still sell loads!

Remember the A-class is an entry-level car - not some luxury saloon or hard core perormance machine.

How can you be so certain the MB have made a mistake and that you know better than their panel of expert car designers? I accept that some things I prefer might just be my preference or opinion, and that others may well see things differently or make a different decision