Don't buy a Triumph Stag!

[BTB 500]

Mentioned this in another thread, found the page just now so scanned it in. This is the 'exclusions' page for a warranty I once had - see item I

Never seen anything like that, before or since!

Luckily my car was a Granada 3.0 Ghia ("Sweeny car"), and the warranty did pay out when a head gasket failed catastrophically ... filling one cylinder bank with water and seizing the engine on a dual carriageway

I did always fancy a Stag though

 

[grober]

Stag engines -nightmare scenarios abound. timing chain problems and overheating as I remember??? Lots of folks put the old 3 litre Ford v6 engine and gearbox in as a transplant just to keep em on the road.

 

[Howard]

LOL !

Was reading it , and thought this seems pretty standard stuff ....

Until you get to point 'I' .....

hahahhahahahahah !!

 

[BTB 500]

Stag engines -nightmare scenarios abound. timing chain problems and overheating as I remember??? Lots of folks put the old 3 litre Ford v6 engine and gearbox in as a transplant just to keep em on the road.

IIRC one problem was that the Stag's V8 and the Dolomite Sprint 4 cyl it was based on were some of the first to have alloy heads, and people didn't realise the importance of keeping the antifreeze mixture correct all year round in terms of preventing corrosion. So joints started to leak, gaskets failed, coolant loss, overheating, warped heads etc.

I suspect with proper care & maintenance they were probably not so bad, although of course we are talking BL here

Yup I remember the Ford V6 (same as I had in my Granada) going in them, also Rover V8s.

I had a Dolomite 1850 HL (4 cyl, OHC, twin carbs) and that was actually a pretty good car apart from the usual rust problems.

 

[PJH]

Stags with Rover 3.5 V8s were the best, but rare.

 

[BTB 500]

I think the Stag was originally designed for the Rover V8 anyway?

 

[Howard]

Used to love to pull up alongside Stags and MG V8 things in my CRX VTEC ...

Sayonara .........

 

[SGCW124]

Stags

I actually had a stag

Went right off it after my g/f , now my wife, said I looked like a ageing 4th division football player.........

The engine cooling system was only just good enough but Ok if looked after with quality coolant like Bluecol the main contibuters to overheating were different block / head materials with a poor choice of gasket and a huge intake casting of different material that sat right in the V of the block.

All those parts fighting for room.

A Stag with a V8 engine is worth NOTHING, a Stag with an original triumph engine is worth .......next to nothing these days unless concours

 

[television]

Stags with Rover 3.5 V8s were the best, but rare.

I have only ever seen them with the Rover GM V8. the original ones did sound nice.

Malcolm

 

[graeme73s]

Original nice cars are fetching reasonable money. From memory the problem was the radiator that ran horizontal tubes rather than the normal vertical and silted up, causing the dreaded overheating and knackered engine scenario.

 

[imadoofus]

Stags with Rover 3.5 V8s were the best, but rare.

Triumph never put a 3.5 in the Stag. It was done many times by owners to get over the overheating problems, but in reality, those problems only arose due to the poor engineering of the original cooling system.

A properly sorted Stag 3 litre - which is a V8 - (and any still around have been sorted) is a joy. It's not as torquey as the Rover (or as powerful), but it's lighter, and the character is so much better suited to the car.

PJ

 

[Dieselman]

A neighbours friend comes round in one with an original V8 3.0 litre. It sounds good and goes pretty well but wouldn't start on a hot day due to vapour locks in the carburettors.
He was really embarrased until I said to pull the choke full out to draw some petrol.

Dolomite Sprints also used to suffer overheating and heads warping for the same reasons as stags.

 

[Donk]

The way I understood it when I was into Stags was that they buillt their reputation around overheating yes. However, as some of you have quite rightly said, this was caused by poor quality of the cooling system components, and in particular the manufacturing process and of the head alloy itself. Some cars in circulation were found to have foundry sand still in the waterways it ws that bad, needless to say they had problems. Assuming you had no sand in it, if a good quality anti freeze was not used, the alloy in the waterways soon started to crumble, silting up and imparing the efficiency of the horizontal tubes in the rad, So, it overheated, blew the HG's, warped the heads and got a really bad reputation. Nowadays people are aware of the problems and its not so much of an issue. I bought my own Snag back in 1989 and done a full body and mechanical resotration, and once sorted cant say I ever had overheating probs and I used to travel many a mile in it.

The Triumph V8 was a one off, designed and fitted for the Snag only, and the ones with the Rover Buick v8's, Ford Essex V6's and Triumphs own Straight 6 devalued the cars big time. Buyers seem to want the original engine nowadays. I seem to recall there was some internal political thing going on at the time withing Leyland which made them use the Triumph V8 as opposed to the Rover lump which was a tried and tested design. As much as I admire the uniqueness of the Triumph V8, I cant help thinking things may have been different if the Rover one had been used.

I still have mine tucked away in the garage 17 years after I restored it, and when I drove it last year it still did not overheat, so it can be sorted and kept that way. Other bits had broken but thats not the point

 

[Ultymate]

As others have said the Achiles heel of the Stag was its inclination to cooling issues. It ran extemeley high (for it's day) pressure in the cooling system around 25psi which made it prone to leaks. It was prone to head gasket failure and if you were the poor mechanic who had to remove the heads you were in for a major struggle because half the studs per head were not at right angles to the head joint so had to be removed before the head could be lifted and added to this all of the said studs were prone to seizing in the alloy heads and even the special Triumph tool would fail to remove them. I once spent three weeks getting the heads off one and it's one job I would never wish to repeat not that I'm likely to as I'm well into retirement The ones that were converted to the Rover ( Buick V8) by their owners if well done were a far better option, why Leyland never fitted that motor themselves I'll never know

 

[BTB 500]

The ones that were converted to the Rover ( Buick V8) by their owners if well done were a far better option, why Leyland never fitted that motor themselves I'll never know

It has been alleged that internal politics meant that Triumph intended, but were unable, to use the proven but old technology General Motors designed all aluminium Rover V8. This is myth. Rover, also owned by British Leyland, simply could not supply the numbers of aluminium V8 engines to match the anticipated production of the Stag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_Stag

 

[Satch]

My uncle once owned a Triumph Stag with the intention of converting it to a Rover V8 engine. But he never got around to it and the thing was a nightmare. Finally sold it on (complete with the V8 lump & other bits he had kept sitting in the garage for best part of two years) to somebody who did have the time.

Read this and you will begin to understand the undiluted woe that befell many an owner.

If you think "whaaaaat??????" to this bit, read on:

"If the brake warning light starts to illuminate when the engine is idling this may indicate low oil pressure...."

http://www.stag.org.uk/index.aspx?pid=184

 

[oilburner]

Yes the slant 4 in the dolomite was effectively the Stag V8 chopped in half. I think a company called Ricardo designed the Engine for Triumph.
The ironic thing about it is; the same engine was also sold to SAAB to power the 99 and eventually the 900. That engine had a reputation for being bomb proof due, I assume, to SAAB's engineers improving it although the first 99's had problems and there was always an issue with head gaskets and Saab 900's.

 

[Swiss Toni]

Yes the slant 4 in the dolomite was effectively the Stag V8 chopped in half. I think a company called Ricardo designed the Engine for Triumph.
The ironic thing about it is; the same engine was also sold to SAAB to power the 99 and eventually the 900. That engine had a reputation for being bomb proof due, I assume, to SAAB's engineers improving it although the first 99's had problems and there was always an issue with head gaskets and Saab 900's.

As I recall, the Ricado/Triumph project had been called Scarab or rather ScArAB

 

[Dieselman]

and in particular the manufacturing process and of the head alloy itself. Some cars in circulation were found to have foundry sand still in the waterways it ws that bad, needless to say they had problems. Assuming you had no sand in it, if a good quality anti freeze was not used, the alloy in the waterways soon started to crumble, silting up and imparing the efficiency of the horizontal tubes in the rad,

I don't think it was casting sand at all. Peugeot mixed metal engines suffered the same problem due to poor antifreeze and air locks in the head.
The sand is actually the alloy and silica from the aluminium head, which would eventually go porus causing internal water leaks.

 

[Dieselman]

Quote:
It has been alleged that internal politics meant that Triumph intended, but were unable, to use the proven but old technology General Motors designed all aluminium Rover V8. This is myth. Rover, also owned by British Leyland, simply could not supply the numbers of aluminium V8 engines to match the anticipated production of the Stag.

I suspect there was politics involved, apparently there were serious Boardroom battles within the BL group.
For example the Jaguar XJ40 was designed with the engine bay deliberately made too narrow to accept the Rover V8 so it still used the old Jag straight six from the 1950s instead.

If they could make a new engine in the requesit quantity why couldn't they just make more Rover V8 engines?