Doom and gloom in latest EVO magazine ...

[smillion]

So, you think UK road tax is bad?

France now have road tax for cars over 161g/km (which ain't that bad) at £2,000 per annum.

In Holland its worse, with £85 per g over 240g/km. A Ferrari 599 would be subject to a £22,000 per annum road tax.

£22,000 !

The Porsche CEO, Dr Wiedeking, has indicated that Porsche could pull out of the over zealous European market, especially if Brussells insist on bringing in the proposed 130g/km average for cars sold in Europe from 2012. Porsche don't do cars like that.

4 years away.

I don't want to be polictical.

No really, I don't. There's enough on the forum lately for that.

Just draw attention to the fact that the simple pure engineering creativity that is everything epitomised (spelling?) by Mercedes; BMW; Porsche et al is at risk here. We have ABS and airbags because of the lucky people able to spend £100k on a car that 15 years later is worth £5,000 (i.e. s500). It all trickels down to the rest of us.

And then, to top it all, I see that IBM wins a £125m contract to fit black boxes to all 100,000 new cars in United Arab Emirates to record driving behaviour. Using GPS they monitor speeding. Offenders are notified automatically to the Police.

EVO.

The magazine that has as its tag line "The Thrill of Driving"

I wonder how long before I am reading about someone's epic roadtrip in a Renault Megane diesel..............................

Rant over.

Thanks go to Jacobs Creek for the production of this post

 

[pauldmaynard]

I dont know about Holland but I dont pay £2000 per year for my E220cdi 169/km when I reg it new I had to pay a one off payment of 750€ about £550 & then the tax is less than UK so little I dont rember

 

[st4]

I am really spooked about the black boxes. It is a complete breach of human rights.

Perhaps maybe we can cut the cr** and just have little microchips fitted to ourselves that do the same job, or bar codes tatooed accross our foreheads so whever we walk we can be scanned and movements cross referenced with databases etc.



At least fuel duty doesn't spy on you.

Re road tax and emissions banding, I have made my negative views of this freely available before.

 

[RedDog]

I am really spooked about the black boxes. It is a complete breach of human rights.

Perhaps maybe we can cut the cr** and just have little microchips fitted to ourselves that do the same job, or bar codes tatooed accross our foreheads so whever we walk we can be scanned and movements cross referenced with databases etc. ....

Crikey! It could turn out like that old television programme " The Prisoner "...... ...' I am not a prisoner.. I am a free man! ':bannana:

 

[mattc]

Thanks go to Jacobs Creek for the production of this post

Think how good it would have been if you had been drinking '89 Haut-Simard (can we tell what bottle is in front of matt as he types )

 

[andy_k]

I am really spooked about the black boxes. It is a complete breach of human rights.

I think it's to late to start worrying about breaching our human rights.

Middle Britain has gladly signed them away over the last 10 years with the "if you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to be afraid of" newspeak we've all heard so many times (even on this forum) and now it's getting to the point where it's too late.

The next generation of cars in the UK will probably have some sort of black box fitted to generate automatic speeding fines or ensure the car sticks to the limit. Afterall, they can already extract data from the airbag control units - nobody saw that coming did they? Well, yes they did and a lot of people complained but were stonewalled saying that the data was inadmissible in British courts and of course "if you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to be afraid of".

Freedom to enjoy a performance car on the roads is something that doesn't really exist anymore. The chances of getting caught speeding far outweigh the fun of a good old fashioned blast

Andy

 

[FishtailnZ]

WOAH! I'm not complaining anymore about my annual £70 road tax or £0.68 per liter gas!

 

[hawk20]

I dont know about Holland but I dont pay £2000 per year for my E220cdi 169/km when I reg it new I had to pay a one off payment of 750€ about £550 & then the tax is less than UK so little I dont rember

So is the OP wrong? Anybody got a link to show just what the tax position is in France?

 

[jamesmc]

This link in the Guardian On-line explains what they are doing in France.

It looks like more of a one off purchase tax (surcharge) on a new model rather than a massive hike to be paid every year of ownership. It seems that those who can afford to splash out on a new MB will bear the cost of the initial surcharge.

From the Guardian Article examples quoted cited by the French environment ministry:

Among examples cited yesterday by the environment ministry of what motorists can expect under the new scheme, the powerful V8 Volkswagen Touareg and Toyota Landcruiser off-roaders would both be liable for the maximum €3,500 surcharge. A larger saloon car with a 2.5-litre engine would get €1,500 slapped on its showroom price, while a small Peugeot 206 diesel fitted with a particle filter would have €700 knocked off.

 

[hawk20]

This link in the Guardian On-line explains what they are doing in France.

It looks like more of a one off purchase tax (surcharge) on a new model rather than a massive hike to be paid every year of ownership. It seems that those who can afford to splash out on a new MB will bear the cost of the initial surcharge.

From the Guardian Article examples quoted cited by the French environment ministry:

Great link. Many thanks.

 

[jamesmc]

Of course if I had looked more closely I would have noticed that the article was from June 2004!!

Sorry about that.

 

[hawk20]

Of course if I had looked more closely I would have noticed that the article was from June 2004!!

Sorry about that.

Easy mistake to make. Done it myself.
So presumably the plan has been implemented by now? Anyone got an up-to-date link?

 

[Mr E]

re the "Black Box" installations in UAE....

I'm not going to enter in a human rights debate but this is how it works. Using GPS the system monitors the vehicle's speed in relation to the posted speed limit on the stretch of road. Audible and visible warnings are given if the limit is being exceeded. After a certain time / number of warnings on that stretch of road, the offence is recorded and transmitted via a cellphone link.

It was rolled out to government vehicles first before hitting Joe Public, and is run by CERT Telematics with IBM supplying the technology (as they do to other telematic applications).

Reason? 1 serious injury every 2 hours and 1 death every 15 hours on UAE roads. That's about 2.5 times the UK rate.

 

[st4]

I think it's to late to start worrying about breaching our human rights.

Middle Britain has gladly signed them away over the last 10 years with the "if you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to be afraid of" newspeak we've all heard so many times (even on this forum) and now it's getting to the point where it's too late.

The next generation of cars in the UK will probably have some sort of black box fitted to generate automatic speeding fines or ensure the car sticks to the limit. Afterall, they can already extract data from the airbag control units - nobody saw that coming did they? Well, yes they did and a lot of people complained but were stonewalled saying that the data was inadmissible in British courts and of course "if you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to be afraid of".

Freedom to enjoy a performance car on the roads is something that doesn't really exist anymore. The chances of getting caught speeding far outweigh the fun of a good old fashioned blast

Andy

Sadly this is 100% true

In response to the UAE example I would like to think we are a more civilised society than the UAE. What may be deemed acceptable over there doesn't make it right over here.

Black boxes are a major breach of privacy, breach of human rights, and the "I don'd mind being spied on as I don't do anything wrong" outlook is spineless at best. Look where it has got us, police knicking our data from our cars.

Have we no self respect. It amounts to the same thing as having the electronic tagging that is put on prisoners or the the mircochip people put in their dogs.

Are motorists prisoners or dogs?

 

[Dryce]

This appeared in New Scientist:

http://www.newscientist.com/article...y.html?DCMP=ILC-hmts&nsref=news4_head_dn13809

So there is a suggestion that the congestion charge hasn't had a great effect on London's air quality. But that's not the official stand.

Actually the congestion charge might or might not be having lots of effects on air quality. But I suspect there are lots of opportunities for unintended consequences. Eg. congestion charging discourages poor people with smaller cars but actually makes it more attractive (lack of congestion) for rich people with larger cars to enter London.

 

[Dryce]

Tax on fat drivers?

Maybe HMG and Gordon should read this.

http://www.livescience.com/environment/080430-lean-green.html