Drivers could face £20 fine for leaving engines running in traffic jams

[Dragon]

Well, there are plenty who are happy to live there. If your experience of Shoreham is restricted to the A27 / Tesco / M&S / Homebase then I could see where you are coming from. However there is much more to a town then a dual carriageway and retail park.

BTW I don't live in Shoreham, and am not an estate agent

Littlehampton. Yuck.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oman-stabbed-20-times-terrified-shoppers.html

 

[st13phil]

I've always been curious about this, does the car use more fuel when being started?

<<snip >>

Does anyone know?

I can't answer that for certain, but my wife's Cooper S has the Efficient Dynamics package and the decision tree logic that the car follows to decide whether or not to switch off the engine rather than leave it idling is pretty complex.

For example, it takes into account engine oil and water temperatures, ambient temperature, battery charge state, what current drawing devices (e.g. lights) are switched on, cabin temperature vs desired cabin temperature and so forth. With the exception of the last one listed which is purely about occupant comfort, all the rest must be related to overall fuel consumption (and hence emisions) or wear characteristics so I'd say that there's probably no simple answer.

What I can say though is that this Cooper S is significantly more economical in stop/start urban use than her previous one without the ED package was.

 

[AndyS]

I've always been curious about this, does the car use more fuel when being started?
When stuck in long stationary jams on the motorway I do turn my engine off, but in town when stuck in traffic I hesitate as I may have to restart in a few seconds/minutes. In which case am I burning more fuel during the restart process than I would save in turning it off?

Does anyone know?

The Mail have quoted the AA as saying this on the subject:

"
Why turning the engine off in traffic might not be that green after all...


A car engine is at its most inefficient when it is idling, the AA said last night, but turning off the engine is not necessarily an improvement.
A spokesman explained: 'In terms of emissions, the catalytic converter only works properly when it's hot, and it cools down when idling.
'This means emission levels of gases and hydrocarbons will rise.
'Our own fuel consumption tests showed that a car uses somewhere between 0.36 and 0.78 litres an hour when idling - so that's no miles per litre, but plenty of carbon dioxide and more toxic emissions.'

An hour of idling can produce around 2.36kg of carbon dioxide - the 'greenhouse gas' blamed by scientists for global warming.
But switching an engine off is not necessarily a better option, the AA warns.
A burst of fuel is needed to start an engine, so switching it off and then on again seconds later actually uses more fuel than idling and produces more emissions.
The AA said: 'For less than a minute it is not fuel efficient to switch off because you will use more fuel starting up than you will save. It only becomes fuel efficient to switch off if you are going to be stopped for a minute or more.'"


A couple of other interesting tidbits from the same article worth noting - it all seems quite sensible to me when you read between the lines of the DM's nonsense sensationalism..

"A spokesman said: 'We want to get people out of the habit of leaving their cars ticking over out of convenience.
'We would stress that this is just an investigation at this stage. If it were ever introduced the fixed penalty would probably be £20, but we would hope the vast majority of motorists would be willing to cooperate. Air pollution is a particularly important issue for our residents, particularly those with asthma, lung and heart conditions.'
Signs have been put up at level crossings, telling drivers to switch off when the barriers are down."

The Department for Transport said it had issued guidance to councils stressing that they should not issue a £20 penalty notice without first giving drivers a warning."


"Rule 123 of the Highway Code says: 'If the vehicle is stationary and likely to remain so for more than a couple of minutes, you should switch off the engine to reduce emissions and oil pollution.
'However, it is permissible to leave the engine running if the vehicle is stationary in traffic.'
The Department for Transport said it had issued guidance to councils stressing that they should not issue a £20 penalty notice without first giving drivers a warning.
Rule 123 of the Highway Code says: 'If the vehicle is stationary and likely to remain so for more than a couple of minutes, you should switch off the engine to reduce emissions and oil pollution.
'However, it is permissible to leave the engine running if the vehicle is stationary in traffic.'"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ffic-jams.html

 

[ckember]

Motorists could face £20 spot fines if they leave their engines running while stuck in traffic.
Traffic wardens will be able to issue the penalties - after a warning - in a bid to cut down on pollution.

Mr Watters added: 'The legislation allowing councils to impose such fines has been on the statute books for a few years, but few drivers are aware of it.'


I did recently, but what happen if I can't restart the car?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ine-leaving-engines-running-traffic-jams.html

What about buses and trucks will they be exempt?? if so why they pollute just as much on a per vehicle basis.

 

[Dragon]

What about buses and trucks will they be exempt?? if so why they pollute just as much on a per vehicle basis.

This is called double standards. You can't do anything about it, can you? They are the boss.

Get rid of the rail lines, so we don't have to wait.

 

[miro]

Maybe they should fine the person who designed traffic causing roads.

 

[Donza]

Motorists could face £20 spot fines if they leave their engines running while stuck in traffic.
Traffic wardens will be able to issue the penalties - after a warning - in a bid to cut down on pollution.

Mr Watters added: 'The legislation allowing councils to impose such fines has been on the statute books for a few years, but few drivers are aware of it.'


I did recently, but what happen if I can't restart the car?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ine-leaving-engines-running-traffic-jams.html

If a traffic warden even thinks he is coming near me with a fine whilst i am in a traffic jam he better be armed.

 

[W210 Fan]

Littlehampton. Yuck.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oman-stabbed-20-times-terrified-shoppers.html

can somebody cut his phone line to stop him pasting random crap from the daily mail on this forum?

 

[Satch]

All well intentioned and not a bad idea if done properly and with some intelligent thought.

Will we end up with an army of jobsworths slapping fines on at the slightest excuse and for the wrong reasons so the Daily Wail can rage about it?

I hope not but, knowing from first hand experience:

(i) my local authority and their urine poor contractual skills

(ii) the sharp and self interested leeches they contract to do "Environmental Enforcement" and

(iii) given the target driven halfwits these people employ cheaply to actually do it,

afraid my confidence level is not high

 

[Soltan]

Thanks to AndyS and st13phil for some very informative responses.
I wasn't aware that the BMW efficient dynamics was that advanced, I tried to find some info on what it actually did from the BMW website a while back when it was introduced on a few of their models but it didn't really explain what it was. Obviously if the calculations it performs are that complicated then it's probably not something the average human brain can do on the fly in a traffic jam.
The advice from the AA seems a good guideline, but I wonder if a couple of minutes might not be too short a time...

 

[recycled]

What about buses and trucks will they be exempt?? if so why they pollute just as much on a per vehicle basis.

well i am sure cars that travel throughout the congestion zone free in the weekends, the co2 does not vanish on monday morning