Driving to France for skiing trip

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sp218

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Joined
Jun 18, 2014
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47
Car
C63
Hi folks,

So booked my skiing trip to the French Alps. Decided to take my C63 estate and now need to think about what to take for the car.

I already decided against winter tyres as I live in London and normally drive short distances around town. Just can't justify spending that much for 2-3 months use and an occasional skiing trip. Also storage is a problem for me and not so sure tyre hotels will keep my summer tyres for more than 6 month?

But in any case I would definitely need a pair of snow chains. In France winter tyres are optional but snow chains are a legal requirement in some places under snowy condition.

So I am thinking of tracked snow chains that don't go over the suspension side of the tyres (e.g. Thule K summit or Maggi Track Sport) for the rears. The question is should I throw in something like Autosocks for the fronts as well? Or why not Autosocks for all 4 tryes? They now seem to be legal in France and will save me about 200 quid. Or maybe I can get away with Autosocks for the rears? That will be the most economical option to meet the legal requirement but worried about what will happen in practice on a twisty mountain road when snow is bad. After all, you need grip at the front for steering and brakes when going downhill. Beginning to miss my B8 S4.. Or wish Merc would develop 4matic option on all RHD AMGs.

Anyone had experience taking rear wheel drive AMGs for skiing? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
If it were me I'd invest in some all weather tyres like the good year ones and use them year round. Maybe not ideal for a c63 though if you use its performance! The difference they make on slippery roads is amazing and for year round use entirely acceptable unless going to the limits.

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4 wheel drive alone is not adequate for driving in heavy snow and ice as "summer tyres will quickly get clogged with snow and lose grip, then again nor is it required most of the time unless going off road in extreme conditions.

I have just returned from Iceland and the majority of people drive Japanese hatchbacks or saloons but all have winter tyres.

Twice in one day we had to stop to offer assistance to drivers that had left the road, one was driving a Mitsubishi Shogun and the other a Subaru!
 
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I do like the idea of all seasons tyres but as you said maybe a bit of a compromise during summer.

Besides would still need to have snow chains in France... Heard, when snowing, Gendarmerie will turn you around without snow chains even if you have winter tyres on.
 
4 wheel drive alone is not adequate for driving in heavy snow and ice nor is it required most of the time unless going off road in extreme conditions.

I have just returned from Iceland and the majority of people drive Japanese hatchbacks or saloons but all have winter tyres.

Twice in one day we had to stop to offer assistance to drivers that had left the road, one was driving a Mitsubishi Shogun and the other a Subaru!

You are absolutely right. Wasn't saying that 4 wheel drive will solve everything but its better than RWD and at least can get away with fitting snow chains at the front only
 
You are absolutely right. Wasn't saying that 4 wheel drive will solve everything but its better than RWD and at least can get away with fitting snow chains at the front only

Why, with 4WD would you only fit snow chains at the front? Surely if grip levels were low enough to require snow chains then all wheels need them fitted?
 
Why, with 4WD would you only fit snow chains at the front? Surely if grip levels were low enough to require snow chains then all wheels need them fitted?

No you don't need them all around under most condition. Obviously it's better.. You need snow chains for traction under load normally so why they suggest fitting them on driving wheels. But you also need traction under braking and to certain extent to change direction. If you are going a steep downhill and brake your weight distribution will shift mostly to front wheels. On 4wd and fwd fitting on fronts will solve all above. Just wanted to hear experience taking their car to the Alps whether going slowly is enough to get away with fitting snow chains on rear tyres.
 
I 'half-heard' the other day that some Merc dealers are offering a storage service for your winter wheels & tyres when not in use - very handy for us without garages. I think you have to purchase them from the dealer of course - so not the cheapest option.

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No you don't need them all around under most condition. Obviously it's better.. You need snow chains for traction under load normally so why they suggest fitting them on driving wheels. But you also need traction under braking and to certain extent to change direction. If you are going a steep downhill and brake your weight distribution will shift mostly to front wheels. On 4wd and fwd fitting on fronts will solve all above. Just wanted to hear experience taking their car to the Alps whether going slowly is enough to get away with fitting snow chains on rear tyres.

Surely if conditions require chains for grip then you need that extra grip on all wheels?

All wheels will play a part in directional control, braking etc. I could well imagine that if you had extra grip at the front via the use of chains then the rear is more likely to break away. I do not recollect seeing this particular advice published regarding the use of chains but then again I have never had cause to need them. Do you have a reference source? It would be interesting to see some published advice.

You say that on 4WD and FWD fitting chains to the front only will "solve all the above" but then ask if "going slowly is enough to get away with fitting snow chains on rear tyres" What about your diminished braking and steering capability in the scenario you suggest?
 
Surely if conditions require chains for grip then you need that extra grip on all wheels?

All wheels will play a part in directional control, braking etc. I could well imagine that if you had extra grip at the front via the use of chains then the rear is more likely to break away. I do not recollect seeing this particular advice published regarding the use of chains but then again I have never had cause to need them. Do you have a reference source? It would be interesting to see some published advice.

You say that on 4WD and FWD fitting chains to the front only will "solve all the above" but then ask if "going slowly is enough to get away with fitting snow chains on rear tyres" What about your diminished braking and steering capability in the scenario you suggest?

That's the advice the chain manufacturers or retailers will give you. And also I have had to use snow chains on FWD cars a few times when living abroad and fitting on driving wheels only was fine. Clearly fitting on all wheels is the safest option and as you say fitting on either front or rear will add additional risk of yaw (under steer if fitted to the rear and oversteer if fitted to the front). But it's about compromise it is a hassle to fit them on and off and cost money. Also in these conditions you tend to drive slowly which helps with the directional stability... Centrifugal force being proportional to v squared (sorry I have an engineering background). Traction however can be an issue even at zero or low speed.

I never had to drive RWD cars under snow chain condition, so that was why I was asking the question... But I have heard that it is trickier with RWD cars and the inherent even weight distribution on RWD cars (as opposed to front weight bias of FWD or 4WD cars) tends to make it worse when going downhill under braking and uphill when steering, if you fit the chains on rear only. Hope that makes sense...
 
Surely if conditions require chains for grip then you need that extra grip on all wheels?

All wheels will play a part in directional control, braking etc. I could well imagine that if you had extra grip at the front via the use of chains then the rear is more likely to break away. I do not recollect seeing this particular advice published regarding the use of chains but then again I have never had cause to need them. Do you have a reference source? It would be interesting to see some published advice.

You say that on 4WD and FWD fitting chains to the front only will "solve all the above" but then ask if "going slowly is enough to get away with fitting snow chains on rear tyres" What about your diminished braking and steering capability in the scenario you suggest?

That's the advice the chain manufacturers or retailers will give you. And also I have had to use snow chains on FWD cars a few times when living abroad and fitting on driving wheels only was fine. Clearly fitting on all wheels is the safest option and as you say fitting on either front or rear will add additional risk of yaw (under steer if fitted to the rear and oversteer if fitted to the front). But it's about compromise it is a hassle to fit them on and off and cost money. Also in these conditions you tend to drive slowly which helps with the directional stability... Centrifugal force being proportional to v squared (sorry I have an engineering background)... Traction however can be an issue even at zero or low speed.

I never had to drive RWD cars under snow chain condition, so that was why I was asking the question... But I have heard that it is trickier with RWD cars and the inherent even weight distribution on RWD cars (as opposed to front weight bias of FWD or 4WD cars) tends to make it worse when going downhill under braking and uphill when steering, if you fit the chains on rear only. Hope that makes sense...
 
Fitting chains gets a little complicated with 4x4's as it seems to differ by manufacture.

Some cars need chains on all 4 wheels and some you have to select 2WD and put the chains on the two driven wheels (some front, some back), Other 4x4's need chains only on the back.

One thing strikes me about this thread is that I think a C63 with summer tyres is the wrong choice of vehicle for a Ski trip to the alps.

Yes you might get lucky and have clear roads but if the weather turns (and it often does) then winter tyres are a must on a RWD car like this. I'm not sure if chains will even fit a C63 (not that you want to even try using chains in this day and age) and snow socks would just be shredded in a blink of an eye.

I would be calling Mercedes for a quote for winter wheels and tyre packages for this model and then balancing this cost against the cost of a bucket flight and a hire car (with winter tyres).
 
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For what its worth I have a set of the Thule K summit chains. Pretty easy to fit once you have worked out the process and work well. They attach via the wheel bolt and dont touch the alloy at all so no problems with damage.
 
It is possible to see the winters as cost neutral if you view it as preventing wear on the summers, thus prolonging their life from say one year to two summers, so in effect you're only paying for the next set of tyres a bit earlier if you keep the same set of wheels.

While perhaps not quite Alpine, I did take the CL up and down some roads in the Ardennes with a few inches of snow / hard ice on them and it managed well enough on quite worn summers as long as it was driven intelligently.
 
I lived in California for 25 years and we had a ski cabin at Lake Tahoe. Experience as follows:
VW Golf all season tires snow chains on front wheels...very effective but a nightmare to put on and off, sometimes 3 or 4 times a weekend depending on roads.

Toyota Tercel 4WD estate all season tyres never a problem but stayed away from deeper snow.
Jeep CJ74WD (Chevy 327 V8) knobby snow tires all the time Unstoppable in any conditions (except ice) where only 4 wheel chains help but better to stay home as other drivers are out of control.(See below)
Jeep Cherokee estate 4wd all season tyres good but chains sometimes needed.

One sunny clear weekend I made the mistake of taking my Mustang with low profile tires, roads were clear. While skiing, a big storm came through and I tried to get out without putting chains on. Sliding sideways at 25mph is scary. I hit two other cars
nobody hurt, my front end and other cars mangled. Major insurance claim, obviously my fault. Police were too busy to attend or I would have been cited. It took four months to get my Mustang fixed and my insurance went through the roof for 3 years.

When in doubt, use chains. A pain to use but saves lots of grief.
 
Thanks for all your advice, guys.

Winter tyres are obviously recommended, but snow chains are necessary in any case. The modern snow chains actually seem very well-designed, or at least the top of the range ones seem to be. They can fit performance cars which have little clearance between tyres and the suspension and some of them are much easier to fit compared to the ones I have fitted before.

GP801 and j.schmeltzer, do you guys fit the snow chains only on the rear tyres of your RWD car? I'm leaning towards Maggi Trak Sport on the rears and may be Autosocks for the fronts - just in case. The resort itself is well connected to an autoroute and Autosocks should last as I only need it between the foot of the mountain and the resort. Hopefully condition is good enough I don't need to use any. Will let you guys know how I get on.
 
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Why Snow Chains? They are fairly old hat now.

You want snow socks. A lot easier to put on than chains.

If you are out there for a week or so its likely you will need them. The day we got there on Boxing day the whole mountain got shut down due to traffic chaos due to heavy snowfall.
Then they were ONLY letting cars past with chains/socks fitted.

The same is the situation today, heavy snowfall forecasted so only chained cars allowed up the mountain.

Winter tyres are the best option of course but its a helluva cost for one trip. Would be cheaper to park in somewhere like Moutiers and get a taxi to the resort.
I use hire cars from Geneva airport and they have winter tyres so ive never had an issue.
On my return trip in January, I had to dig my car out, I couldnt even find my car beneath the snow covered cars. Anyway with winter tyres the car just drove like it was stuck to the road in deep snow.

Last time I took my own car from the UK, I took chains.. Did the whole practice run of putting them on at home. Got to resort and needed them. Put them on and they snapped and got tangled around the suspension.
Was not a great situation. I was lucky the chain didnt shear the brake pipe.
These werent cheap ones either... (Michelin branded maybe?)

If I take my car again I will carry snow socks. They take a second to fit and are just as good.
 
It's been more than 1 month since I went to France, so just thought I'd write up how I got on with my C63 on summer tyres equipped with a set of decent snow chains. The ones I got were great and it was worth spending the extra money on.

CONDITION: It did snow heavily the night before I got there so there was snow on the road. At the bottom, the road was wet but snow was already cleared so had no problems. Managed to get a good blast on twisty roads. Kept constant look at external temp gauge was hovering around 0 degrees. The summer tyres were absolutely fine right up to about 1,200m and external temp at the altitude was -4 degrees.

SUMMER TYRES: What surprised me though was how suddenly things changed. The grip on summer tyres dropped immediately above 1,200m where more slush covered the road. The traction performance fell off a cliff. 50 yards before absolutely fine, the 50 yards later no traction at all. Guess this is what makes summer tyres dangerous. At this point, I had to stop the car put the chains on.

FITTING: The chains were really easy to fit. The chains are I bought were ladder track ones, which are designed to fit cars with little clearance (even though I have 18" there is hardly any room there) and nothing goes on the inner side wall of the tyres. It took about 1 mins to put them on each. Ok, I practiced putting it on in the UK and it really helped. You basically slip it on the top section of the tyres then the sides then tighten the bit that goes on one the wheel nut by hand (no spanner necessary). Push the chain in, do the same on the other side then drive. The chains just slipped on to the rest of the tyre as you drive.

PERFORMANCE: Once with the snow chains, no issues with the traction and I made it all the way to 1,800m to the resort. Ok, you have to drive slowly at around 30 km/h (20 mph), it does make a noise and the locals with winter tyres do go past you, but there were plenty of others with snow chains / socks so people didn't mind. The chains look quite different to standard ones and some of the locals were quite impressed how easy they were to put on and asked my where I got them from...

During mid-week snow cleared and I had to remove them. Again very easy and took couple of minutes.

In all, very happy with the set. In summary:

  • You can take a C63 to the Alps in winter.
  • I can see the benefits of winter tyres definitely.
However, if you live in a city and never drives extensively in rural areas during winter and you are going to the Alps,
  • Summer tyres are fine as long as you have a decent set of snow chains.

I also had a set of snow socks for the fronts, but never had to use them. Snow chains on the rear were just fine as you are going pretty slowly anyway.
 

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They look similar to mine

Thule K-Summit ?
 

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