Drove a 2016 C63 estate... disappointed!

[ZeeDee]

Afternoon guys. After selling my W204 C63 coupe last year and with the impending arrival of our first baby, I was hoping a S205 C63 would be a logical progression. I did think about getting a S204 estate, but I'll be sharing the car with my wife and she prefers the newer tech and interior of the S205. I also thought it would be easier/more comfortable for her to drive with the adjustable ride control and electric steering etc.

With that in mind I managed to drive a 2016 model (budget is £35-£40k) on the weekend. I already knew it wouldn't quite be the same experience given the smaller capacity engine and turbos.. but I was just so disappointed with the whole experience Things went wrong right from the startup. I was expecting it to burst in to life like my 2013 coupe, but it just had none of the growl and snarl I expected. Things didn't get much better during the drive... it just sounded so muted and non-AMG like, the whole experience was very flat. And yes, before anyone asks, I did switch everything to sports+ (and manual on the paddles).

Don't get me wrong, it handled and went very well (though the steering was a bit light for me and it didn't have the feel of the 204, my wife found it very easy to drive), but I just felt it didn't seem to have any character or charisma. It's almost too refined (I felt like it should be a C43). Yes there were pops and cracks from the exhaust in sports+ mode, but it sounded very exhausty (lol if that's even a word!) and none of the intake noise and deep growl I got from the 2013 coupe.

To be fair, I should say that my coupe had the secondary cats deleted and an MSL remap. And the 2016 C63 (not the S) I drove didn't have the switchable amg exhaust. I really want to like the car as I think it's the best compromise for our one car family, so a couple of question if you guys wouldn't mind:

1) How much difference does the switchable AMG exhaust make? What difference does it make to the sound (deeper etc?). I honestly can't believe it's an optional extra!

2) Are the estates generally not as loud as the coupe (are they tuned differently)? I would've thought the estate would be louder as the exhaust sound can flow through the cabin without being blocked.

3) Can you delete the secondary cats on the 205 like on the 204 and does it make the same difference?

4) Does the C63S have more character than the non S? Looking at the spec differences I can't imagine much difference unless there are subtle changes to the tuning etc.

Thanks for all advice

 

[RickMM]

I came from a standard exhaust W204 and swopped for a 205.
The switchable exhaust on the 205 makes a massive difference. Exhaust open makes the tone deeper and louder, and I actually prefer it to my old (standard) 204. Exhaust closed is (marginally) quieter than standard 204, but then the whole car is that bit more refined anyway (something your wife might appreciate?)
I'd recommend you get a drive in one with a switchable exhaust and test for yourself before dismissing it.

 

[kit17]

Hi Zeedee
1) The exhaust makes a massive difference. Completely different animal. I can’t believe people spec them without.
2)No idea
3)Changing the down pipes is the way to go with w205’s if wanting more noise.
4)Character and Power wise it Makes little or no difference in the real world, I’ve got the standard version but have driven them back to back on the track on a couple of occasions and the S has a little bit more at the top of the Rev range but that’s about it. However you do get the performance seats (and performance exhaust in the coupe) as standard and a Race mode which could be useful if wanting an even harder suspension for the track days over sports+ which is too stiff for a lot of our roads anyway. I personally like the suspension set on sport for blasts on country back roads etc. S’s Hold there money slightly better too and you obviously have the kudos of the top model if that is important to you.

 

[unimog]

I have driven all 3 body styles in 'S' versions with the switchable exhausts, and they all sound equally as good to me, I wouldn't say the estate is tuned any different.

As far as mods go, a German colleague of mine has a 2016 non S estate without the switchable exhaust, he fitted this with an Akrapovic titanium evolution system which was about 5k euro all in, its sounds fantastic (+11 on the standard switchable system) and is a superbly engineered system, but pricey.

 

[Neiltodd]

I'm pretty happy with my S204 estate

 

[kit17]

I have driven all 3 body styles in 'S' versions with the switchable exhausts, and they all sound equally as good to me, I wouldn't say the estate is tuned any different.

As far as mods go, a German colleague of mine has a 2016 non S estate without the switchable exhaust, he fitted this with an Akrapovic titanium evolution system which was about 5k euro all in, its sounds fantastic (+11 on the standard switchable system) and is a superbly engineered system, but pricey.

I’ve never seen one with this system , looks really well made . I Wondered how it could sound better than the Amg exhaust but from what you say it does. Must sound amazing.

 

[Iggu]

The switchable exhaust is simply a must. With it the w205 trumps the w204 - without it I think it would be too sedate.
Did you drive it in C or I mode? This also makes a huge difference - a bigger difference than on the 204. C on the 205 is like driving a standard C class but in I mode with the settings set right..... wow. I love it.

 

[ZeeDee]

Many thanks to all for the thoughts and insight.

I definitely will try to drive a car with the switchable exhaust. I'll stick to the non-S version as I don't think it's worth pushing the budget for an S variant (and it's shocking to think there are S models specced without the switchable exhaust! I really don't get that!). I really do want to like the car - it is more refined than the 204 and my wife will definitely appreciate that side. If I don't get a C63 I don't know what else to get lol!

That Akropovic looks and sounds amazing! But £5k for an exhaust! You can buy a decent car for that!

I started off in C but than switched everything to the most aggressive settings. What do you guys find is the best combination for normal driving with Individual mode?

 

[MrRight]

of course if you prefer the S204 then that's what you should get ! Cheaper to buy, and less refined (more noisy). The big weakness of the 205 is the lack of noise IMO but that is its strength for daily driving. outside the car it is really loud, but in the cabin , sadly not unless you open the moon roof or windows . The sound damping is just too good which isn't necessarily a good thing if you want a wall of sound.

I'm sure the Mrs would get used to the 204...

If you live near the Surrey area I would be happy to take you for a drive in an s version of s205 so you can get a different perspective on it (with the performance exhaust ) . it will never be as loud as the 204 but if you drive it a certain way , it brings out a different type of character to the 204 which some folks like me much prefer.

Either way , happy hunting !

 

[RickMM]

When you're on the throttle with the exhaust open I'd say the W205 is actually louder than a standard W204.
When just cruisin' around or stuck in A Road traffic then it's quieter, even with the exhaust valve open.
The accelerator really does work like a loud pedal !

 

[flowrider]

Afternoon guys. After selling my W204 C63 coupe last year and with the impending arrival of our first baby, I was hoping a S205 C63 would be a logical progression. I did think about getting a S204 estate, but I'll be sharing the car with my wife and she prefers the newer tech and interior of the S205. I also thought it would be easier/more comfortable for her to drive with the adjustable ride control and electric steering etc.

With that in mind I managed to drive a 2016 model (budget is £35-£40k) on the weekend. I already knew it wouldn't quite be the same experience given the smaller capacity engine and turbos.. but I was just so disappointed with the whole experience Things went wrong right from the startup. I was expecting it to burst in to life like my 2013 coupe, but it just had none of the growl and snarl I expected. Things didn't get much better during the drive... it just sounded so muted and non-AMG like, the whole experience was very flat. And yes, before anyone asks, I did switch everything to sports+ (and manual on the paddles).

Don't get me wrong, it handled and went very well (though the steering was a bit light for me and it didn't have the feel of the 204, my wife found it very easy to drive), but I just felt it didn't seem to have any character or charisma. It's almost too refined (I felt like it should be a C43). Yes there were pops and cracks from the exhaust in sports+ mode, but it sounded very exhausty (lol if that's even a word!) and none of the intake noise and deep growl I got from the 2013 coupe.

To be fair, I should say that my coupe had the secondary cats deleted and an MSL remap. And the 2016 C63 (not the S) I drove didn't have the switchable amg exhaust. I really want to like the car as I think it's the best compromise for our one car family, so a couple of question if you guys wouldn't mind:

1) How much difference does the switchable AMG exhaust make? What difference does it make to the sound (deeper etc?). I honestly can't believe it's an optional extra!

2) Are the estates generally not as loud as the coupe (are they tuned differently)? I would've thought the estate would be louder as the exhaust sound can flow through the cabin without being blocked.

3) Can you delete the secondary cats on the 205 like on the 204 and does it make the same difference?

4) Does the C63S have more character than the non S? Looking at the spec differences I can't imagine much difference unless there are subtle changes to the tuning etc.

Thanks for all advice

I echo your disappointment, I had an MB AMG experience at MB Brooklands and was allocated a C63 4.0TT and found it to be underwhelming. The acceleration off the line didn't feel as quick as my S5 (3.0 supercharged) and the handling around the track wasn't as crisp and sure footed as I expected. I wish I had been allocated an E63 as they kept overtaking me!

 

[MrRight]

I echo your disappointment, I had an MB AMG experience at MB Brooklands and was allocated a C63 4.0TT and found it to be underwhelming. The acceleration off the line didn't feel as quick as my S5 (3.0 supercharged) and the handling around the track wasn't as crisp and sure footed as I expected. I wish I had been allocated an E63 as they kept overtaking me!

most AWD cars will be faster off the line than a 650nm rwd car (they dont offer s versions of the 63 much on the AMG driving experiences at least from the last few times i have been), that's normal. Other than that, a 63 will definitely beat a stock S5 3.0 to 60mph in either case. I've only ever driven a 2016 RS3 and 2017 RS4 spiritedly and other than having incredible straight line speed, and immense cornering grip, they are as dull as dishwater and understeer like mad when pushed into corners and have noticeably more body roll than the 63. These are the RS versions, not even the S versions. I would be willing to bet a wad of cash that if you took your s5 onto a track you would be far far more underwhelmed than the experience you had with the 63... Or the S5 is more capable than the newer RS3 and RS4, in which case i could be wrong here...

I'm in no way bashing your comment but unless you've taken an RS or S Audi on the track then I am quite surprised you found the merc to be underwhelming to be honest.

 

[Iggu]

When you're on the throttle with the exhaust open I'd say the W205 is actually louder than a standard W204.
When just cruisin' around or stuck in A Road traffic then it's quieter, even with the exhaust valve open.
The accelerator really does work like a loud pedal !

Agree 100%. With the exhaust "on" my 205 is way louder (in a good way) than my 204 was. Even pootling around at 40mph you can bring the grins on by jabbing the accelerator and getting the bangs and pops going. It's childish but SO much fun I can't stop myself.

 

[flowrider]

most AWD cars will be faster off the line than a 650nm rwd car (they dont offer s versions of the 63 much on the AMG driving experiences at least from the last few times i have been), that's normal. Other than that, a 63 will definitely beat a stock S5 3.0 to 60mph in either case. I've only ever driven a 2016 RS3 and 2017 RS4 spiritedly and other than having incredible straight line speed, and immense cornering grip, they are as dull as dishwater and understeer like mad when pushed into corners and have noticeably more body roll than the 63. These are the RS versions, not even the S versions. I would be willing to bet a wad of cash that if you took your s5 onto a track you would be far far more underwhelmed than the experience you had with the 63... Or the S5 is more capable than the newer RS3 and RS4, in which case i could be wrong here...

I'm in no way bashing your comment but unless you've taken an RS or S Audi on the track then I am quite surprised you found the merc to be underwhelming to be honest.

The C63 is approximately half a second quicker to 62mph than my S5 on paper but it didn't feel it for some reason, maybe it is the quattro on the S5. Would be good to drive the C63 and the S5 back to back.

 

[MrRight]

The C63 is approximately half a second quicker to 62mph than my S5 on paper but it didn't feel it for some reason, maybe it is the quattro on the S5. Would be good to drive the C63 and the S5 back to back.

The s5 is presumably much easier to drive fast and put power down without much of an initiation. I expect though the 63 is far more composed , with minimal body roll etc. The 63 is harder to drive fast than the RS cars I have driven and it usually takes a long while to learn how to extract performance due to its boisterous nature. Unless the rear tyres are constantly scrambling for grip (but traction control isn't stifling power) the car isn't being pushed hard enough , that's the sweet spot for that car. The rear should feel loose on the asphalt , the tyres should be screeching and begging for mercy, it should slide out of corners, then you know you're driving it ”properly”...

 

[unimog]

..That Akropovic looks and sounds amazing! But £5k for an exhaust! You can buy a decent car for that!...

Then of course you would need to get the Performmaster PEC tuning box for about £3.5k, 612hp and 840nm right out of the box... no need for expensive, engine out down pipe mods either.

 

[kit17]

Then of course you would need to get the Performmaster PEC tuning box for about £3.5k, 612hp and 840nm right out of the box... no need for expensive, engine out down pipe mods either.

Engine out for downpipes?
You have to drop the Transmission at most, which isn’t a massive job.
MSL do a stage 2 tuning package, Down pipes and Remap with a minimum of 610 bhp for £2299.

 

[ZeeDee]

What does changing the downpipes do on the 205? Similar effect on the exhaust sound as the secondary cat delete on the 204?

 

[unimog]

Engine out for downpipes?
You have to drop the Transmission at most, which isn’t a massive job.
MSL do a stage 2 tuning package, Down pipes and Remap with a minimum of 610 bhp for £2299.

As I understand it the space between the heat shield on the bulkhead and down pipes is very tight and it needs to be modified to fit larger section pipes in, and also the turbo gas casing needs up-rating for it all to fit. This was for a Vath Modified down pipe and back system, to run about 690hp/900nm. Like I said, the Performmaster PEC module will give you 612hp from a non s C63 without changing any components, and is removable as its a plug in module.

What does changing the downpipes do on the 205? Similar effect on the exhaust sound as the secondary cat delete on the 204?

Similar to the 204 C63, beyond a certain point you cant extract more power without increasing the exhaust pipe diameter so the engine can breathe better. Secondary cat delete gives you the deeper note and aural V8 presence you are looking for.

The examples I gave are obviously the most expensive tuning options, I'm sure other tuners can get you what you want for far less money. That complete Vath setup is almost 12K euro, and its really popular in Germany, especially with C63 estate owners!

 

[kit17]

What does changing the downpipes do on the 205? Similar effect on the exhaust sound as the secondary cat delete on the 204?

Yes exactly, mainly just for noise , keeps the AMG sound but louder with more pops and bangs.