E 220 cdi estate 2007-2008

[mc2004]

Hi!

I want to buy a E 220 cdi estate 2007-2008.
I understand that the first edition (till 2007) was not so great and had some technical problems.
The Merc. said that 2007 edition is not just a facelift, that change over 2000 items, and tehy resolve all problems.
What can you tell me about it?
TY!

 

[Dryce]

I want to buy a E 220 cdi estate 2007-2008.
I understand that the first edition (till 2007) was not so great and had some technical problems.
The Merc. said that 2007 edition is not just a facelift, that change over 2000 items, and tehy resolve all problems.
What can you tell me about it?
!

The E had a facelift in the summer of 2006. Some detail changes in appearance (some not very apparent, one very tacky IMHO).

Main changes were:

1. The removal of the original SBC braking system and replacement with something less complicated (an presumably cheaper and less inclined to require recalls).
2. The upgrading of the 220 four pot diesel so that it has more grunt.

Bottom line is that with the 220 you'll get a better engine with the facelift and if you didn't know about SBC beforehand then you don't need to care about it now.

The '2000 changes' is MB trying to make some news from a car which to all intents and purposes didn't look much different.

 

[hawk20]

The 2000 changes were very significant and some said the facelift had more changes than most new models. Reliability has been dramatically improved. And the new 220cdi engine is a gem.
Read this from What Car at the time: -
Mercedes claims the updated E-Class due to go on sale this summer will be free of the reliability bugs that have affected the current model since launch in 2002.

The revised car has been put through the most intensive testing schedule Mercedes has ever undertaken with a single model.

It features 2000 new parts compared with the outgoing car, including five new or revised engines and improved safety aids (see separate stories).

Mercedes has also been working with component suppliers to ensure uniform quality standards at every company which provides parts for the E-Class.

Its target is to reduce warranty claims to a lower level than those at Toyota, a company renowned for outstanding reliability.

Electrical glitches are among the most common problems experienced by the current E-Class. Mercedes claims to have ironed these out by testing every component separately outside the car to ensure durability under all conditions.

The braking system has also been changed. The 2002 E-Class had a part-electronic mechanism that was the subject of a recall campaign, but this has been dropped. Mercedes says it can now get the same braking effectiveness by conventional means.

In all, 1000 pre-production versions of the new E-Class were tested for a total distance of nearly three million miles. This will now become the schedule for every new Mercedes.

 

[hawk20]

Hi!

I want to buy a E 220 cdi estate 2007-2008.
I understand that the first edition (till 2007) was not so great and had some technical problems.
The Merc. said that 2007 edition is not just a facelift, that change over 2000 items, and tehy resolve all problems.
What can you tell me about it?
TY!

The E class finished in the top ten in the J.D. Power survey for 2008, finished top executive car in the AutoExpress survey and is shown to be one of the ten most reliable cars on the market by Warranty Direct.

 

[Dryce]

The 2000 changes were very significant and some said the facelift had more changes than most new models. Reliability has been dramatically improved.

'improved' compared with what?

The E was already sorted well before the facelift.

I'm guessing that the JD Power survey for 2008 consist of cars manufactured in 2005/2006 so the facelift wouldn't be significant in the survey.

 

[hawk20]

I think that what we have seen with the E class -and other models- is a steady improvement in reliability. Production from 2003 was fully galvanised on all steel panels, and reliablity from then on seems to have been good. Prior to that there was the valeo rad issue.

But from all I've read and heard there does seem to have been a signifcicant notch upwards with the facelift and all the changes made then were clearly intended to achieve that result. It would be odd if they didn't.

As usual the model gets the best spec and becomes really well sorted out just before it is changed for a new model. That's progress.

 

[Dryce]

The 2000 changes were very significant

LOL.

Call me a cynic.

 

[Dryce]

the changes made then were clearly intended to achieve that result. It would be odd if they didn't.

They'd already tweaked the engines, moved from I6 to V6 on the E320 - dropped the 240 petrol and replaced the 270 diesel with the 280 V6 in 2005 and introduced the 7g autos. The E220 improvement would have come anyway regardless of the facelift.

The hard work had already been done by 2006.

TBH I think they had two things in mind. Dump SBC because it was getting to them that it was a tangible cost with no discernable benefit. And generate publicity to try and revive the market.

 

[jeremytaylor]

The presence of SBC was a deciding factor when I decided to buy my pre-facelift E-class.

 

[hawk20]

They'd already tweaked the engines, moved from I6 to V6 on the E320 - dropped the 240 petrol and replaced the 270 diesel with the 280 V6 in 2005 and introduced the 7g autos. The E220 improvement would have come anyway regardless of the facelift.

The hard work had already been done by 2006.

TBH I think they had two things in mind. Dump SBC because it was getting to them that it was a tangible cost with no discernable benefit. And generate publicity to try and revive the market.

Wrong. They made 2,000 changes. Read the What Car article. And tested them for 3 million miles. Many experts have said the changes amounted to more than is often done for a new model change.

 

[hawk20]

LOL.

Call me a cynic.

O.K. You're a cynic.

 

[Dryce]

Wrong. They made 2,000 changes. Read the What Car article.

So they tweak the cupholders and add some new headrests rests with some new trim options. And come up with a number like 2000. Like that's actually relevant.

If you look at the development of any successful production car it normally accumulates changes over its life. Most aren't really advertised.

"Marketocr*pspeak" as we used to say. (Actually we used to add in another word in there as well but modesty forbids).

I don't trust magazine reviews for lots of reasons - one of which is they parrot the PR of the company. Another is that they lazily parrot each other.

Motoring journalists have two other regular habits which annoy me. They will review the new model and reflect on minor issues with the preceding one (which they never reported) as if 'we all knew' about them. Then there's the issue of scuttle shake. Every bl**dy new convertible reportedly has less scuttle shake than it's predecessor - if that's so then why do we still have scuttle shake at all after all the decades of motor reviews - it should be undiscernable buy now?

So in summary. What Car may have reported 2000 changes. I take that number and ignore it with the contempt it deserves.

Call me a contemptuous cynic.

 

[hawk20]

So in summary. What Car may have reported 2000 changes. I take that number and ignore it with the contempt it deserves.

Call me a contemptuous cynic.

Normally I would agree with you on this. Most facelifts are pretty trivial. But in the case of the E class there were two major factors. There were problems with the early versions of the 211 and there was a new Chairman who set out to make the car as reliable as Lexus. A major programme was launched to change all components that had given problems and to improve quality control with suppliers. Everything I have read suggests this was a major overhaul of the 211 and the improvement in reliabilty has been widely reported both in the motoring Press and on forums.
Why are you so keen that it should not be true?

 

[scumbag]

.
Why are you so keen that it should not be true?

maybe his PCP is about to end?

Maybe he owns a model which shows that the marketing is not reality and is prepared to say so?

maybe he just does not take everything in print as truth and prefers to make his own mind up?

maybe he is like everyone else in the world, and is never the person who always manages to buy the best car in the world, and thus leaves the rubbish for us to collect and spend vast sums on keeping.

you could start a poll and that might provide the answer?

 

[SL300-24]

Just sold my 2003 E320 CDI after 3 years ownership without a problem. Okay it had a Behr Radiator with no valeo problems, but that aside it was a great car. The SBC brakes have been excellent, with great features including SBC hold and stop.I wonder if all the so called problems with early cars have been exagerated over time?

 

[hawk20]

Just sold my 2003 E320 CDI after 3 years ownership without a problem. Okay it had a Behr Radiator with no valeo problems, but that aside it was a great car. The SBC brakes have been excellent, with great features including SBC hold and stop.I wonder if all the so called problems with early cars have been exadurated over time?

I think you may be right that early problems have been exagerated somewhat but let's not deny that some existed. There were electrical problems on the early ones and the valeo rad issue on some. HonestJohn details some of these. MB openly admitted the early problems and set up a major programme to deal with them. See posting 3 for the What Car summary of changes that were made. It just might be right.

Before the E class, testing a thousand pre-production models over 3 million miles was not normally done for complete new models let alone just a facelift.

 

[Dryce]

Why are you so keen that it should not be true?

I'm not bothered one way or another.

Just my rather jaded view of the world says that it isn't and that they're clever with the publicity.

Are you so keen that it should be true?

(I'm guess you're also not so bothered one way or t'other).

 

[Mr E]

I've had both.

The 04 was very reliable, with one problem in 4 years and 130k miles. No electrical gremlins.

The 08 - better ride and handling, quieter, no SBC-Stop , perkier engine (220). Only gripe is the rattle from the centre-front speaker when listening to Radio 4 - doesn't do it with anythng else I listen to...

The vast majority of the changes were minor, as they usually are in mid-life faclifts, but no quibbles about it from me. The sum has improved what was, for me, a very, very good car to begin with.