e-bay / PayPal Advice/help Please

[brucemillar]

Folks

My wife bought an i-phone on ebay. Item was described as "Brand New still in Box. Unwanted Upgrade"

She paid immediately on PayPal.

PayPal said that the payment was "unconfirmed - contact the seller"

Contacted seller who stated that the this was "her brothers phone that she was selling on his behalf and that her brother PayPal account had an issue" Could we pay through PayPal into her account?

We contacted e-bay support who agreed that this was acceptable and that we were covered by ebay/PayPal protection.

We paid the seller as instructed and funds were cleared at both ends. Seller apologised and shipped the item.

Item arrived.

It was in an open box & had obviously been heavily used (all scratched).

Contacted seller via e-bay resolution center,

Seller agreed to an immediate refund.

We had to ship the goods back at our expense 6.50 Seller then issued refund via PayPal.

We closed the dispute on receipt of funds.

Now PayPal have charged my wife 12.98 in fees for the transaction. When we escalated to PayPal they said "this is standard practise and we need to claim our fees back from the seller".
Wife argued that either e-bay of PayPal should have done this as we had opened a dispute and done everything through e-bay.

Now PayPal and ebay will not budge.

So through no fault of ours we have been charged 20.00 in postage and fees for an item that was "not as described" and have no protection from either e-bay PayPal.

Is this correct?

 

[nick mercedes]

Is this correct?

Was it a gift payment?

 

[brucemillar]

Was it a gift payment?

No it was straight forward PayPal payment to the sellers e-mail account. E-bay confirmed that this acceptable and linked the sellers account details to her E-Bay ID etc.

It just seems wrong that PayPal can charge us 12.98 in fees for a goods that were not as described. We have now had to buy another phone and PayPal will charge us fees again on that purchase. So we will have shelled out almost 30.00 in fees to PayPal. This has destroyed any saving that we may have made on the purchase.

 

[davidjpowell]

Sounds like the seller has funds as a new payment, rather than refunding the payment

 

[Spinal]

Sounds like the seller made a payment to you rather than a refund... in which case there isn't much you can do as eBay and paypal are a law upon themselves...

M.

 

[evdok]

Id be happy i got a refund and wasn't scammed.

 

[fatdazza]

No it was straight forward PayPal payment to the sellers e-mail account. E-bay confirmed that this acceptable and linked the sellers account details to her E-Bay ID etc.

It just seems wrong that PayPal can charge us 12.98 in fees for a goods that were not as described. We have now had to buy another phone and PayPal will charge us fees again on that purchase. So we will have shelled out almost 30.00 in fees to PayPal. This has destroyed any saving that we may have made on the purchase.

I didn't think paypal made any charges to the person buying an item, so I doubt you will incur any paypal fees on your second purchase.

As for the £12.98 it sounds as though the seller sent you a payment rather than a refund (and hence Paypal see it as though you sold something and therefore charge their percentage on the deal).

As to having to pay the return postage on the item, you should have insisted the seller refund you that as well as the item was clearly misrepresented.

Be aware that not all people trading on E-Bay are as honest as you would like them to be.

The issue of whose paypal account you needed to pay would have set alarm bells ringing for me (especially for an expensive purchase).

Finally for any large purchase I would always try to buy from someone local so that you can inspect the goods before paying.

E-Bay "bargains" are very rare.

 

[rigel]

As above, if the payment wasn’t refunded via the original transaction (seller must still have the full amount it their Paypal account), then Paypal will view it as two separate transactions and take their cut on both.

I’d be thankful for how it has worked out, believe me, it could have got a lot messier.

 

[Swozza]

As above. In pay-pal there is a tab next to your payment in the sellers statement. Clicking it displays a refund option. Seems the seller has not done this and instead just done a straight payment, which is a common mistake and on that you get charged fees.

 

[Red C220]

In all honesty you've had a result getting back what you did. Next time you get an issue like this relating to Paypal/ebay, don't pay to start with, just find another seller.

Paypal are a nightmare to deal with but are a necessary evil.

 

[brucemillar]

All

Many thanks for your replies. So some background.

Neither myself or my wife would be considered e-bay / PayPal novices. Both of us have long histories and 100% feedback buying & selling.

When we saw this phone it was at a price that is the going rate for Brand New I-Phones. The seller has 100% feedback with over 200 sales. Before buying we emailed the seller to ask if the phone was "brand new" as described and explained that it was a Birthday Present for my teenage daughter. The seller assured us it was as described and was an "unwanted upgrade".

Once we had bought it and attempted to pay for it, things went wrong. However both e-bay and PayPal confirmed that there was "no issue" and we could use the sellers e-bay email to pay via PayPal. Interestingly e-bay also confirmed that the seller had contacted them and explained that there was an issue with her "brothers PayPal registration" e-bay had logged her call on their system.

When the phone arrived and was seen to be not as described. I immediately contacted the seller who was very apologetic and said her brother had assured her it was as described. She immediately offered a full refund and followed that with an email apology. E-Bay logged my dispute which I closed as soon as the monies were refunded in full. It was the next day that PayPal took their fees.

As stated above (Thank you) the seller did indeed send a payment (from her mobile) and did not use the refund button. That would appear to be a genuine mistake. My issue is that neither e-bay nor PayPal seem to want to honor their stated commitments to "complete buyer protection". Surely they should chase the seller and not ask me to do so. I used their services in the prescribed manner and took every caution (including opening a dispute).

I think it is poor business from both to punish their customer for using their services.

Lastly. I do think that the seller was genuine. That said she should have checked what was being sold in her name was as described.

 

[corned]

Contacted seller who stated that the this was "her brothers phone that she was selling on his behalf and that her brother PayPal account had an issue" Could we pay through PayPal into her account?

Not that this helps, but as has been said - this (above) was your early warning that this was not going to go well. I know that's very easy to say after the event.

As they are refusing to budge, you really only have the seller as a route to any kind of remedy. Ebay/Paypal as you know are one and the same thing, and it is not in their interests to help you out, as you have now found to your cost.

See if the seller will help out and retract that payment, and instead issue a refund. If they won't then you're pretty much buggered I'm afraid. Yes it's unjust, but what are you going to do?

 

[paulrstaylor]

Just be aware that if they sent a payment and not a refund they could try and reverse their "payment" at a later date.......

I'm not saying it is a scam, but I would push ebay/paypal for an actual refund and refund the "payment" you have received of possible, that way there will be no charges and no comeback. My concerns would be that lets say you paid using funds in your account that they withdrew, they could then send you a payment back (as a refund) using a stolen credit card.....

 

[et0609]

This is the reason I will never buy anything on Ebay from an individual, it is just too risky now, especially when it comes to things like mobile phones. I very occasionally sell something, and I'll admit, its useful for that. I had the exact same issue a few years ago, bought a phone described as "brand new", when it turned up, it still had the previous owners sordid text messages from his girlfriend on it!

He refused to give a refund, so after days of complaining to Paypal, they eventually gave me a refund, minus my postage costs, so I was out of pocket by £5 and it wasnt even anything I had done. Then, about a year later a delightful gentleman from Vietnam managed to hack into my Paypal account and use my stored credit card details to order a dozen laptops. It was Amex that refunded me, not Paypal, they couldnt have cared less, even when it was proven to them their security had failed.

Ebay and Paypal dont give a monkeys about people when they get robbed on their website.

 

[SilverSaloon]

Just be aware that if they sent a payment and not a refund they could try and reverse their "payment" at a later date.......

I'm not saying it is a scam, but I would push ebay/paypal for an actual refund and refund the "payment" you have received of possible, that way there will be no charges and no comeback. My concerns would be that lets say you paid using funds in your account that they withdrew, they could then send you a payment back (as a refund) using a stolen credit card.....

^^^ what he said.

he could simply state the money was for an item and you've basically got to provide a tracking number for posting it..... which you cant.

i'd contact the seller telling them you want it done as a proper refund, otherwise you leave yourself at risk of having the money taken from the paypal account if the lodge a scam claim, and also you incurr the paypal recieve fees too.

i'd also withdraw the funds now from the paypal account and remove any cards/bank account directdebits attached just incase. then its up to paypal to get the money back from you, and hopefully then, commonsense will provail, but dont hold your breath..... remember paypal/ebay are dodgier than the scammers who use the site........