E Class Avantgarde Ride quality

[grufflybear]

Hello, just wanted to seek opinions... I have 2007 220cdi Avantgarde Estate 18" wheels 265 rear/245 front. Have never really been happy with ride at speed - I can live with "road feel" over bumps etc but I am heartily fed up with the constant jiggling at motorway speeds - after a year all the wheels were replaced due to "buckling" and after a great deal of back and forth visits to dealership the car did run smoother again (of course allowing for surafce variations) and I was happy until recently when it seemed to have become decidedly annoying at motorway speeds. Car itself has done 27,000 and this set of tyres about 8,000 miles , so I got them rebalanced result was bloomin' awful - so I took it to Protyre who balanced it again and now it is back to being reasonable but easily set off jiggling again once you are "around" 70 to 75. I suppose I could simply be losing my patience at the moment after last years saga of the buckled alloys but I really can't believe that there are other people driving around in a car which new cost £38,000 which is this annoying - my Skoda was a magic carpet ride at 100 mph on German Motorways and there are times when I really feel that my Merc has given me the "worst ride" of all the cars I have had recently..... tried it in the Merc but didn't bother for long just too bumpy !

Are all avantgardes on 18 inch wheels similar... do you just put up with it because they look nice and make it handle better ?

 

[wemorgan]

Have you tried having 3D wheel alignment?

 

[stevesey]

Guy at work has just replaced his 540i with a 05 E320CDI (43K) with 18" wheels (and 245/265 tyres) - the car was essentially bought unseen from the dealer - similar spec was driven locally, but without the 18" wheels. So he was a little nervous about the ride quality - but after 4 days is more than happy with the comparision against the 540 (which was on 16" wheels). This was one area where he was looking for fault (inorder to return the car quickly if he didn't like it).

Can you define "jiggling" - wheel wobble, tramlining, or what?

 

[grufflybear]

I think the type of vibration from bad wheel balance has been eliminated but not sure - there is no harsh vibration through steering wheel as you would get from obvious imbalance but the car shudders with every nuance of the road surface and even on what I had thought were very smooth surfaces (may be wrong of course) I never seem to get a completely smooth ride - difficult to describe It feels like the shudder you get from going over bumpy roads at slower speeds, I remember the effect from the buckled wheels which was very obvious eventually and it is similar but Protyre didn;t seem to think that this set of wheels have that problem (yet). I suppose in many ways I have lost confidence in this car - every tiem I go on a journey with a motorway run I am always waiting for the shaking to annoy me. The shuddering seems pretty constant so even when yuo go over sections of different surface on a m'way the basic shuddering seems to carry on even when other elements of road feel change

I have wondered if the wheel choice simply does not suit the suspension of the car - they were dealer fitted so I assumed that they knew what they were doing...

I have never heard of 3d balancing though - what is it ? where is it done ?

 

[wemorgan]

I have never heard of 3d balancing though - what is it ? where is it done ?

3D wheel alignment not balancing.

Basically it's checking the caster, camber and toe. Correctly adjusted it can dramatically affect the ride characteristics.
One such place is called Wheels in Motion.

 

[grufflybear]

Looked at origianl spec for my car and it seems to also have some sort of "sports pack" the suspension is very very "firm" - I took it for a run last night at "motorway" speeds and I guess it could just be the very firm ride revealing every nuance of road surface - maybe when I am tired I just get fed up with it. Tracking was checked and re-set by main dealer after a bad pot hole strike last year ( yes the local authority paid the bill for that and the new wheel and tyre) and everything was fine afterwards - perhaps the need to re-balance the wheels recently re-focused my attention on the detailed road feel this car gives me

 

[Rory]

I have a C Class (C270CDi) Avantgarde estate and the ride is most un-Mercedes like. And mine is on 16" wheels, 55 profile at the front and 50 at the back. On the original Bridgestone tyres, it felt like it was running on iron rings rather than rubber tyres. I first changed the backs to Michelin Primacy HP and that was a bit better, but recently changing the front's to HP's made a surprising amount of difference.

My car has standard Avantgarde (which I gather is the same as the other lines, but a little lower) suspension, but I do wonder if the estate set-up is in some way different to the saloon?

You seem to have the worst possible combination - estate, Avantgarde, sports suspension and 18" wheels with presumeably very low profile tyres.

 

[renault12ts]

I have a C Class (C270CDi) Avantgarde estate and the ride is most un-Mercedes like. And mine is on 16" wheels, 55 profile at the front and 50 at the back. On the original Bridgestone tyres, it felt like it was running on iron rings rather than rubber tyres. I first changed the backs to Michelin Primacy HP and that was a bit better, but recently changing the front's to HP's made a surprising amount of difference.

My car has standard Avantgarde (which I gather is the same as the other lines, but a little lower) suspension, but I do wonder if the estate set-up is in some way different to the saloon?

You seem to have the worst possible combination - estate, Avantgarde, sports suspension and 18" wheels with presumeably very low profile tyres.

Strange you have a lower profile at the back.

 

[grober]

Strange you have a lower profile at the back.

PROFILE is a ratio of width/height. The "profile" is the % fraction of the tyre width the tyre sidewall height is. This means for a wider rear tyre of certain wheel+ tyre diameter the profile gets "lower" despite the fact the tyre side wall is the same height Car Bibles : The Wheel and Tyre Bible Page 1 of 2 Its basically a function of the front and rear wheels being different widths.

 

[V12]

1. Get alingment done.
2. What tyres do you have? Cheap tyres can make the ride quality awful!

 

[jeremytaylor]

Grufflybear, it sounds like you have a Sport model which has 18" as standard. The other trim levels have 16" standard and softer suspension settings, with the option to upgrade to 17". I have 17" on my Avantgarde and find the ride fine.

I fear that even putting 17" on yours won't help that much because of your sports suspension.

Moral of the story: Try before you buy!

 

[lynall]

Got 18s on my older model with avantgarde set up and it was terrible, 4 wheel tracking and it much better, still harsh but tracks straight and true, no wobbles.

Google wheels in motion or elite tyres essex, both good

Lynall

 

[grufflybear]

Interesting and useful to get other views - the tyres are Continentals supplied through dealer - yes I am coming to the conclusion that I have a very "firm" chassis set up - The other factor with the Estate is that the bodywork is probably not so rigid as the saloon and probably adds to the rumbles and thumps felt through the suspension - from choice next time I will go for a more compliant set up but then I might miss the pin sharp steering and benefits of my set-up - I guess for the ultimate would have to rattle the piggy bank enough to get the adjustable air suspension et al....

thank yuo so much for comments and advice - nice to be able to exchange views with others who have experience of day to day use of these cars in different guises

 

[grufflybear]

I think you are right - hardest set up going - lovely and sharp to drive but I guess i have to put up with the rather too much information it gives on every road surface

 

[Rory]

Strange you have a lower profile at the back.

To add to grober's explanation, your's must be the same but are probably way lower profile than mine.

 

[Mactech]

I had 18" on my E280 Avantgarde Estate and the ride was only slightly more jittery than on the stock 16" rims. On Continental and Goodyear F1 the ride was not bad at all (better on the new F1's). The Conti's were a bit noisy as they became worn and the F1's sapped a few mpg by having a quite high rolling resistance.
I had a E320 Sport for a week as a loan car and it was beyond firm and into the harsh bracket. It was a joy to get back into the 'limo' ride of my Avantgarde even on 18" after that!
The type of tyre has a big effect.
The depth of tread has a big effect.
The rim diameter has a big effect.
But in your case I suspect the sport suspension in the cause of your discomfort

 

[grufflybear]

I know what you mean about iron rings - I had a blow-out at 80 mph on the M40 last year - car warned me of pressure loss etc and run flats meant I got to hard shoulder safely where the tyre was completely flat but I have to say that the difference in ride quality was not much even with zero air the tyre !!! Scarey experience though but glad I had the hard walled run-flats.

 

[survey]

I have a C Class (C270CDi) Avantgarde estate and the ride is most un-Mercedes like. And mine is on 16" wheels, 55 profile at the front and 50 at the back. On the original Bridgestone tyres, it felt like it was running on iron rings rather than rubber tyres. I first changed the backs to Michelin Primacy HP and that was a bit better, but recently changing the front's to HP's made a surprising amount of difference.

My car has standard Avantgarde (which I gather is the same as the other lines, but a little lower) suspension, but I do wonder if the estate set-up is in some way different to the saloon?

You seem to have the worst possible combination - estate, Avantgarde, sports suspension and 18" wheels with presumeably very low profile tyres.

Rory - My 'C' Class is on Bridgestones at present but will need replacement fairly soon. I was thinking of the Michelin Primacy tyres. The Bridgestones transmit quite a bit of road noise and I just wonder if the Michelins will be quieter?

 

[goldestate]

My 16 inch Primacy tyres are noisy

 

[Rory]

Rory - My 'C' Class is on Bridgestones at present but will need replacement fairly soon. I was thinking of the Michelin Primacy tyres. The Bridgestones transmit quite a bit of road noise and I just wonder if the Michelins will be quieter?

I think the Primacy's are quieter, but not much difference. The car definitely rides better with them, though.