E class Estate a definite maybe.

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hawk20

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
4,344
Location
Lymington, Hampshire
Car
ML250 BlueTEC Sport Jan 2013
Gone mad and bought two Schnauzer puppies. Well wife has. And, of course, wouldn’t you know it, the crate/cage for two of them won’t fit in the boot of the A class –let alone leave room for our luggage on holiday or for the inevitable shopping. You can put older dogs in the boot with no cage but puppies chew everything in sight.

We wanted two cars as Susan needs one to get to work and I want one too. So we got two A’s. If we have one car only then I must get up early to suit nurses schedules! But it seems that is the way to go in order to get a big enough car for two dogs, luggage, shopping etc.

The cars that offer the space we need are the R class, the ML and E class estate. The R is too dear, too big to park easily and depreciates too fast. The ML is roomy and a much better car to drive than I expected but the fuel bills will be hefty (we do 15k miles per year at least), the depreciation is bad at the moment and the whole anti 4x4 business is off-putting too. That leaves the E estate. (We drove the BMW 5 series but don’t like the looks and were also put off by its very poor showing in JD Power). We could wait, at a pinch, for the new E class but the looks don’t impress me half as much as the current one, which to my eye, is one of the best looking modern saloon/estates.

Normally I buy new for the 3 year guarantee and less hassle, but a new E class estate with the extras we want has a list price just under £40k. And depreciation on large cars nowadays –even on MB and BMW- is at pretty mind bending levels. So as many on this forum have suggested, it makes most sense to look second-hand. Nearly new appeals -07 or 08- preferably uner 10k miles. Anywhere.

We like the 220cdi (good economy and sensible VED level at 194 CO2 and £210 now rising to £260 next year and then £270). Demonstrators go for £26-£31k.

In an ideal world we would like: -
Automatic, parktronic, telephone pre wiring, Folding mirrors, heated windscreen wash, leather, memory seat for the driver, and maybe passenger memory seat too, as I’m 6ft odd and Susan is 5ft 3in and we both like to drive. We also would like the tinted heat insulating glass from the B pillar backwards as it keeps the car cool for dogs when parked. Silver or a light colour helps too.

The search is on. Meanwhile I have two 5 door A180cdi’s one Elegance and one Avantgarde, both under a year old and each with only around 8k on the clock, going for very sensible money!
 
For £26-31k I would want to be in a 320cdi avantgarde or sport, real world the consumption will be pretty much the same, buy the time you have had it one of two years the difference in value will make the 320cdi look far better value.

2 litre engine on a big heavy motor like the E doesn't make that much sense imho, not when the bigger cars have lost so much more in the first 6-12 months.

Was offered an 08 plate sport with comand and all the essentials and 6k on it for £29k today, no way I would pay £30k for a 220 with deals like that around, that was a £46k car.
 
The search is on. Meanwhile I have two 5 door A180cdi’s one Elegance and one Avantgarde, both under a year old and each with only around 8k on the clock, going for very sensible money!

I thought you had them on a PCP ?
Having never done a PCP myself (cash is king in my little world) how do you sell something you don't actually own yet for "very sensible money" ?

Not nit picking - I'm genuinely interested


Mark
 
You can get a settlement figure from your dealer, which tells you how much you owe if you want to buy the car, you can always sell it as long as you clear the outstanding finance.
 
A 180 Cdi

OK I'll ask the question - how sensible ??

;)
 
I think it will be an exception for you to find a car secondhand with that size of engine and level of spec - as a rule people don't tend to chuck money at them.

Also, I may be getting the wrong end of the stick, but people spend thousands and thousands to purchase a car, have service and running costs on top....and then worry about the odd 50 or 70 quid per annum in terms of VED?
 
Hi Hawk20,

In the PCP thread that ran a few weeks back I pointed out some v.good PCP's on E class's. I think they were saloons but you're comfortable financing cars that way so I'd be looking into it.

Out of the list there the E class is the best of them. You can PCP a used car too, so you might be best going for a 6month old S211 demo and PCPing it.
 
I thought you had them on a PCP ?
Having never done a PCP myself (cash is king in my little world) how do you sell something you don't actually own yet for "very sensible money" ?

Not nit picking - I'm genuinely interested


Mark
Quite interesting. First if you have had the car less than 18 months you can get a settlement figure and pay it off. Or the dealer can buy it from you and he can settle the balance.
At 18 months into a 36 month deal (half way is the crucial point) you can just hand the car back and stop payments. No effect on your credit rating. Same as HP as subject to the same law.
 
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For £26-31k I would want to be in a 320cdi avantgarde or sport, real world the consumption will be pretty much the same, buy the time you have had it one of two years the difference in value will make the 320cdi look far better value.

2 litre engine on a big heavy motor like the E doesn't make that much sense imho, not when the bigger cars have lost so much more in the first 6-12 months.

Was offered an 08 plate sport with comand and all the essentials and 6k on it for £29k today, no way I would pay £30k for a 220 with deals like that around, that was a £46k car.
Having driven the 320cdi I agree it is a wonderful motor. BUT they are a lot more money and there are very few of them about as demonstrators. I think about the 280cdi though, but they are pretty few and far between. People worry what the future holds re VED and want good fuel economy and the 220cdi seems to be way the most popular.

I have driven the 220cdi and it is a lot more gutsy than you might imagine. The V6 280cdi (3 litres) does 0-62 in 8.6 seconds while the 220cdi does it in 9.1 seconds. Not that much difference and in modern traffic with speed limits everywhere its probably fine. Any engine that can produce a top speed of 135mph should be adequate for most uses IMO.

On price I'm hoping for mid twenties.

I accept the point that finding one with the exact extras I want may be tricky.
 
OK I'll ask the question - how sensible ??

;)

Here is the extras list on the Avantgarde A class and list prices at the time.
180cdi Classic 5 door 16,767.00
upgrade Avantgarde SE 2,045.00
Metallic Paint 340.00
seat comfort pack 80.00
Automatic 1,390.00
Parktronic 460.00
steering rake and reach 115.00
elec folding mirrors 145.00
6 CD changer 360.00
Telephone pre wiring 400.00
TOTAL LIST ON ROAD 22,242.00

The mileage this morning is 6,500

I got a good discount when new but the present state of the market suggests a bargain for a car under a year old at around £14k. Dealers £15-16k.
 
Having driven the 320cdi I agree it is a wonderful motor. BUT they are a lot more money and there are very few of them about as demonstrators. I think about the 280cdi though, but they are pretty few and far between. People worry what the future holds re VED and want good fuel economy and the 220cdi seems to be way the most popular.

I have driven the 220cdi and it is a lot more gutsy than you might imagine. The V6 280cdi (3 litres) does 0-62 in 8.6 seconds while the 220cdi does it in 9.1 seconds. Not that much difference and in modern traffic with speed limits everywhere its probably fine. Any engine that can produce a top speed of 135mph should be adequate for most uses IMO.

On price I'm hoping for mid twenties.

I accept the point that finding one with the exact extras I want may be tricky.

0-60 and top speed are really irrellevant, a for instance, my jag has very similar 0-60 time and top speed as my mercedes, however they are two totally different vehicles to drive, the jag feels heavy and slow with a lack of midrange punch but get the smooth six revving and it will shift the Merc feels very lively and pulls really well right through the range making for a much more easy car to drive, so i always say its not what it does, but how it does it, i haven't driven the E211 yet, but have my sights on an early straight six 320cdi or a 270cdi as i want similar performance to the c230k i have now, i doubt the 220 can pull like that does? but i haven't tried one yet, i seethey also do one with a 1.8 kompressor engine, surely thats a bit small for a big car.
 
Quite interesting. First if you have had the car less than 18 months you can get a settlement figure and pay it off. Or the dealer can buy it from you and he can settle the balance.
At 18 months into a 36 month deal (half way is the crucial point) you can just hand the car back and stop payments. No effect on your credit rating. Same as HP as subject to the same law.

It is actually when you have got half way through the finance owing, so if you borrowed £25k with £5k deposit and a £5k balloon you can hand the keys back when you have got to £12.5k. Oh, and although there is nothing they can do if you hand the keys back it certainly does affect your credit history and it is logged.


One other thing, PCP is only ever any good if you see the full term out, if you do the agreement over 36 months knowing full well you are going to get before the end of the term is a terrible way to fund a car, you are much better to use a lease purchase scheme.
In fact a PCP is a terrible way full stop really unless the manufacturer is throwing money at the metal you are funding.
 
Quite interesting. First if you have had the car less than 18 months you can get a settlement figure and pay it off. Or the dealer can buy it from you and he can settle the balance.
At 18 months into a 36 month deal (half way is the crucial point) you can just hand the car back and stop payments. No effect on your credit rating. Same as HP as subject to the same law.


I never knew this, and my old man is locked into a PCP, but in 6 months time thanks to this no longer :D
 
0-60 and top speed are really irrellevant, a for instance, my jag has very similar 0-60 time and top speed as my mercedes, however they are two totally different vehicles to drive, the jag feels heavy and slow with a lack of midrange punch but get the smooth six revving and it will shift the Merc feels very lively and pulls really well right through the range making for a much more easy car to drive, so i always say its not what it does, but how it does it, i haven't driven the E211 yet, but have my sights on an early straight six 320cdi or a 270cdi as i want similar performance to the c230k i have now, i doubt the 220 can pull like that does? but i haven't tried one yet, i seethey also do one with a 1.8 kompressor engine, surely thats a bit small for a big car.

Having had the E220 as both a saloon and estate I'd say they were good enough for the car. I don't tend to drive like a loon, but the mid-range punch is very good (as I demonstrated on the way back home just now) for swift and safe overtaking - which in my book is more important than 0-60 times. Will cruise all day at 80 - 100. The saloon would do 50mpg at 80 whilst the estate did 47 mpg at that speed last month (but it's only got 6k miles on it so far), fully loaded. The new engine has a better mid-range, but with the type of driving I tend to do I don't notice a huge difference.
 
Having had the E220 as both a saloon and estate I'd say they were good enough for the car. I don't tend to drive like a loon, but the mid-range punch is very good (as I demonstrated on the way back home just now) for swift and safe overtaking - which in my book is more important than 0-60 times. Will cruise all day at 80 - 100. The saloon would do 50mpg at 80 whilst the estate did 47 mpg at that speed last month (but it's only got 6k miles on it so far), fully loaded. The new engine has a better mid-range, but with the type of driving I tend to do I don't notice a huge difference.

my experiences and thoughts of the car echo this. Its only downside is that it isn't the most refined of engines when idling and definately sounds what it is, a 4clylidner turbo diesel. But @ 70mph its silent and oh so frugal.
 
I was very impressed with the 220 when I test drove it before getting my Merc. The car as a package certainly compared favourably to my petrol Volvo 2.4 and I would say had similar performance.

In the end I went for a 280, not so much for the engine (which is certainly nice to have) but the seven speed gearbox that I felt gave smoother changes, particularly in the lower ranges. The 220 is only available with a five speed automatic box.
 
In the end I went for a 280, not so much for the engine (which is certainly nice to have) but the seven speed gearbox that I felt gave smoother changes, particularly in the lower ranges. The 220 is only available with a five speed automatic box.

That statement in itself makes a real case for a 220cdi as the autobox is really smooth TBH, although I haven't sampled the 7 speeder IMO it may have too many ratio's and therefore be changing gear a lot, something that a torquey diesel engined car doesn't need.
 
That statement in itself makes a real case for a 220cdi

No it doesn't :p

When I bought my car I was quite reluctant to consider an auto as 1) I like to "drive" the car and 2) I had always thought autos pretty "lurchy" when changing. I was very impressed by the 5 speed auto and it completely changed my mind about the second point.

That said, I made my post from the perspective of somebody who has tried both (not just speculation) and think that the seven gives even better changes in the lower speed range. It certainly doesn't seem to be making frequent changes; I assume the electronics are programmed to drive like an advanced driver, missing gears when accelerating quickly.
 
No it doesn't :p

When I bought my car I was quite reluctant to consider an auto as 1) I like to "drive" the car and 2) I had always thought autos pretty "lurchy" when changing. I was very impressed by the 5 speed auto and it completely changed my mind about the second point.

That said, I made my post from the perspective of somebody who has tried both (not just speculation) and think that the seven gives even better changes in the lower speed range. It certainly doesn't seem to be making frequent changes; I assume the electronics are programmed to drive like an advanced driver, missing gears when accelerating quickly.

Lend us a go of yours :D

I refer back to my post, where you discounted the 220cdi on the basis of the gear box, not the engine like a lot of other posters.

For most the 5 speeder is good enough and IMO its superior to the 6sp job in the BMW's (I had one) making the 5 speed box actually very good, and with the engine not being the discounting factor, I'd say indirectly if you can "hack" the 5speed box (most will) then your post does put a good case forward for the 220cdi. Its "What Cars" pick of the E classes afterall.

In saying all that I will have to go out and try it (V6 engined CDi), I've heard good and bad things about 7 speed box.

Out of curiousity did an E220cdi manual not appeal to you? You could have bagged a really good used buy:D
 
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My original plan was to go for a manual (see my previous concerns) but was so impressed with the autos that I didn't see the point.

I wanted a post face-lift model for reliability, corrosion resistance etc (I intend keeping it for at least 5 years probably 10) and I needed a car reasonably quickly as my Volvo had been written off. I also have a busy lifestyle (own business, family etc.) that doesn't give me a lot of time for looking around the second hand market. Looking at ex-demonstrators etc I came to the conclusion that I could get nearly as good a deal on a new car as the local dealer were pretty keen/despaerate to move stock even if they made no money from it. Hence my choice.

BTW, although I talked mostly about the gearbox (as nobody else has mentioned it), I certainly don't mind having a bigger, smoother engine :D. That said, I would agree that the 220 is very impressive and certainly doesn't leave a big car like the E-class feeling underpowered.
 

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