E class Triumphs

[hawk20]

Anyone remember when Dieter Zetsche became head honcho at Mercedes he said he would lead a drive to equal the Lexus in J.D Power and other surveys. Well all credit to him and those involved that the E class missed top exec car by a whisker in the J D Power 2008 survey, and finished in the top 10 of all cars for customer satisfaction.

Now it has just been announced that in the AutoExpress Driver Power 2008 survey it finished top executive car and finished 3rd overall of all the 100 cars in the survey.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/driver_power_2008/

For JD Power see: -
http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=55259

and: -
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/news-special-report.aspx?NA=232612&EL=3243769

 

[The G.F.P]

shame new mercs are so samey and look like most other big cars

i like what citroen have done with the big nw one C6 ?

ive gone right off bmw & merc new mondeo sized cars

the nes sigma looks great

 

[grober]

Satisfaction NOT reliability

We are back to the old problem where by a survey is entitled " a reliability survey" when in fact its a "satisfaction survey" There is a big difference. When you actually read the the Mercedes entry you get this.
Downsides are few, but significant. The handling could be sharper, servicing and fuel bills are pricey, while reliability is still no better than average – 43 per cent of owners have experienced a problem in the last three years. The E class achieves a reliability rating of 58 compared to the lower placed Honda Accord's 11.
The sad reality is - they still havn't caught up with the Japanese on the reliability front on cars that cost twice as much to buy.

 

[verytalldave]

I dont need a survey results - or anyone else to tell me what I already know.
That my 2004 C Class is a superb car and for the money has no rivals. I wouldnt give you the time of day for any Lexus. They are bland and have no soul. As for BMW's. While I appreciate their quality and performance, I dont like to be associated by implication with a brand that has a boy racer image. Whether that is justified or not. Audi dont tick all the boxes and seem to be converging rapidly towards BMW's image. So for that reason I would also give them a wide-ish berth for the time being.
I like Porsche, but they dont make a nice regular affordable 4 door saloon. I dont like 4X4's, so that rules out the Cayenne. Too ugly anyway.
Jaguar was never really in contention. Not at least until they have sorted themselves out with their new owner. Although the X type estate is a possible. They just depreciate quicker than a speeding bullet.
No yank tank does it either. Which brings me back to Mercedes.
They may have had bad press in the earlier part of this decade, but I am glad to see they have managed to get back on track quality-wise.
Unless something untoward happens between now and when I next replace the car, it will be Mercedes again. Probably a nearly new W204.

 

[Dieselman]

I dont need a survey results - or anyone else to tell me what I already know.
but I am glad to see they have managed to get back on track quality-wise.

That's quite a strong opinion to be voicing. Can you supply any information to show what you base that on as it doesn't fit with what is reported in the surveys.
Mercedes C class
Reliability 43rd
Build quality 32nd
Running costs 78th
Handling 45th.

I'm confused as to what your opinion is based on as it doesn't appear that the car is particularly good in a number of key areas.

 

[verytalldave]

That's quite a strong opinion to be voicing. Can you supply any information to show what you base that on as it doesn't fit with what is reported in the surveys.
Mercedes C class
Reliability 43rd
Build quality 32nd
Running costs 78th
Handling 45th.

I'm confused as to what your opinion is based on as it doesn't appear that the car is particularly good in a number of key areas.

I dont see why you should be confused. I thought I made my justifications quite apparent in my original post. However, to reiterate......
Its based on my own findings, beliefs and opinion. You dont HAVE to believe what some survey purports to reveal. It is still possible to formulate your own opinion despite what the government may tell you. Just.
Personally, I dont believe those figures. I dont have to justify it. Its just my belief. Its only the result of a SMALL cross section of motorists/owners and juding by what I see around me sometimes, tends to make me shun survey results such as this. I prefer to trust my own senses thank you.
But that of course, is just my opinion.

 

[glojo]

These reliability statistics are a bit of a joke and how on earth can anyone compare a very basic car that has no options, extra's etc to a car has electronic gadgets coming out of its ears?

John

 

[gary350]

Anyone remember when Dieter Zetsche became head honcho at Mercedes he said he would lead a drive to equal the Lexus in J.D Power and other surveys. Well all credit to him and those involved that the E class missed top exec car by a whisker in the J D Power 2008 survey, and finished in the top 10 of all cars for customer satisfaction.

Now it has just been announced that in the AutoExpress Driver Power 2008 survey it finished top executive car and finished 3rd overall of all the 100 cars in the survey.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/driver_power_2008/

For JD Power see: -
http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=55259

and: -
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/news-special-report.aspx?NA=232612&EL=3243769

Lucky for MB that the Jag XF was too new to enter this survey. Oh I see its just for old cars - just joking.

gary

 

[verytalldave]

Seen a few XF's now. One was parked up near me in a supermarket car park which gave me the opportunity to give it a once over up close. I must be honest. Its a very very nice car. Its about the right size, a bit bigger than my W203.
However, it didnt have that wow factor for me. At least, not enough for me to dig deep into my pocket. I was left thinking it was a nearly but not quite. If you know what I mean. My money would still be on a W204.

 

[Dieselman]

I dont see why you should be confused. I thought I made my justifications quite apparent in my original post.

No, not at all.

You said:

I dont need a survey results - or anyone else to tell me what I already know.
but I am glad to see they have managed to get back on track quality-wise.

To say one knows something means one has some knowledge of a subject, hence I asked;

Can you supply any information to show what you base that on as it doesn't fit with what is reported in the surveys.

I then supplied the reasoning and information to hand as to why I asked what your opinion was based on.

You have failed to answer that question so yes, I am still confused, more so now than previously as your subsequent answer clouds things even more.

This post aptly describes the situation.

reliability is still no better than average – 43 per cent of owners have experienced a problem in the last three years.[/COLOR][/B] The E class achieves a reliability rating of 58 compared to the lower placed Honda Accord's 11.
The sad reality is - they still havn't caught up with the Japanese on the reliability front on cars that cost twice as much to buy.

You disagree but I fail to see on what you have based your opinion, all you say is.

However, to reiterate......
Its based on my own findings, beliefs and opinion. You dont HAVE to believe what some survey purports to reveal. It is still possible to formulate your own opinion despite what the government may tell you. Just.
Personally, I dont believe those figures. I dont have to justify it. Its just my belief. Its only the result of a SMALL cross section of motorists/owners and juding by what I see around me sometimes, tends to make me shun survey results such as this. I prefer to trust my own senses thank you.
But that of course, is just my opinion.

Also I'm not sure what the Government has to do with this, it's a motoring survey carried out by independent bodies. The surveys are comparative and objective so should give a reasonable set of results across the range of vehicles covered.

I have furthered this because we have a lot of facto-opinion on this forum and it's difficult to decide which is reasonable and which is twaddle if there is nothing to base it on. All it does is cause arguments as there can be no agreement due to there being no fact to agree on.

One can only have an opinion based on some information, not based on an opinion.
So again I'll ask, on what is your opinion based, because at the moment it doesn't appear to be anything to do with fact.?

 

[prprandall51]

But this is the J.D Power survey - the biggest piece of tosh and fuffle known to man. It is so far from a level playing field that I would expect the cars to roll off it of their own accord.

What we need is some normalised data to generate real comparisons. If 10% of E Class cars have been back to the dealer because of a fault in Driver memory seat function then we can only compare that level of reliability with another car carrying the same feature. If 2% of Diahatsus have been back because of crankshaft oil seal failure then I know which I would consider to be the more relaible car of the two but the survey would point to the MB as being least reliable.

 

[Mr E]

Isn't this quite simple?

VTD has based his opinion on personal experience? He says that he would rather take note of his own experience rather than a survey, Easy really...

The problem with the JDP survey is that it's not carried out on a statistically-unbiased population - anyone can fill in the form and the results are calculated from there. Even the questions do not conform to a statistically unbiased form. Hence why the OEMs - although interested as it does carry a lot of sway with the motoring media for some reason - use data from the dealer network to ascertain real-world levels of reliability.

 

[gary350]

These reliability statistics are a bit of a joke and how on earth can anyone compare a very basic car that has no options, extra's etc to a car has electronic gadgets coming out of its ears?

John

The survey is based on those that bothered to take part in the survey yet to read the results you would believe that X% of owners thought that bla bla bla. I took part in one of these JD power surveys years ago only because I had faults with my car at that time otherwise I would not have bothered.

dieselman your facts are actually based on a number of opinions or incidents that a small number of owners had experienced, a truer reflection on what on how good a car is would be number of recalls/warranty claims etc but it would be difficult to get that information from the manufacturer or dealer. Forums such as this one a good source of info but even that can be misleading.
For every survey that comes out in favour of one car I can show you 2 others that dont, it really is down to how you like the car not someone elses opinion or troubles.

gary

 

[BTB 500]

FWIW I was at my dealership this morning and noticed they had a JD Power trophy on display that (I think) said "most improved marque, 2007".

 

[verytalldave]

No, not at all.

You said:


To say one knows something means one has some knowledge of a subject, hence I asked;


I then supplied the reasoning and information to hand as to why I asked what your opinion was based on.

You have failed to answer that question so yes, I am still confused, more so now than previously as your subsequent answer clouds things even more.

This post aptly describes the situation.


You disagree but I fail to see on what you have based your opinion, all you say is.


Also I'm not sure what the Government has to do with this, it's a motoring survey carried out by independent bodies. The surveys are comparative and objective so should give a reasonable set of results across the range of vehicles covered.

I have furthered this because we have a lot of facto-opinion on this forum and it's difficult to decide which is reasonable and which is twaddle if there is nothing to base it on. All it does is cause arguments as there can be no agreement due to there being no fact to agree on.

One can only have an opinion based on some information, not based on an opinion.
So again I'll ask, on what is your opinion based, because at the moment it doesn't appear to be anything to do with fact.?

Seeing as you went to a fair degree of time and trouble to reply, you deserve an answer, even though its not far removed from what I have already said.
My OPINION is based 100% on my own experiences. I have owned my W203 now for over a year and not once has it either missed a beat or let me down in any way. The car has now got around 55k miles on the clock, so its had time to bed in shall we say.
I am more than happy with the whole owning experience and therefore, I would give the car high marks. Perhaps I should have completed the survey. But I didnt because I cant be bothered.
Why?
Because surveys of this type are of little ACTUAL value and I never ever take any heed of them. I would rather (as I have already said) use my own judgement, or that of close friends or relatives who I know will give answers which I can relate too and trust.
That is my final word on the subject. I think that should answer your points and if not, I am sorry.
You have to remember, everything is only an opinion unless it can be ACCURATLY quantified. Something which these type of surveys fall down on.
End of post.

 

[glojo]

The survey is based on those that bothered to take part in the survey yet to read the results you would believe that X% of owners thought that bla bla bla. I took part in one of these JD power surveys years ago only because I had faults with my car at that time otherwise I would not have bothered.

Hi Gary,
Could you have really put the cat among the pigeons and put in the details of a fictious vehicle or did they ask for the VIN number?


I'm sure you gave a vey accurate and very fair opinion regarding the vehicle you owned but if there is no proof of ownership then is the whole survey is wide open to abuse?

Regards
John

 

[scumbag]

You have to remember, everything is only an opinion unless it can be ACCURATLY quantified. Something which these type of surveys fall down on.
End of post.

Makes you wonder why these types of posts (Linked to a survey) keep coming up doesn't it?

 

[hawk20]

shame new mercs are so samey and look like most other big cars

Name three big cars that look like the E class.
Then the same for the C class.

 

[Dieselman]

Seeing as you went to a fair degree of time and trouble to reply, you deserve an answer, even though its not far removed from what I have already said.
My OPINION is based 100% on my own experiences. I have owned my W203 now for over a year and not once has it either missed a beat or let me down in any way. The car has now got around 55k miles on the clock, so its had time to bed in shall we say.
I am more than happy with the whole owning experience and therefore, I would give the car high marks. Perhaps I should have completed the survey. But I didnt because I cant be bothered.

All very valid and reasonable, thanks for the reply.
I suppose this is what I was driving at, wanting to know why you held such an opinion when the indicator as given appeared to disagree.

I appreciate that the surveys are made up from respondents replies, but being over a wide range of vehicles they SHOULD be fairly objective in key areas, which is why I quoted the more factual reliability, build quality, running costs, etc parts as opposed to the more subjective parts such as ride and handling, performance, did the dealer kiss your a**, etc.

As such they should be able to give reasonable comparisons between similar models.

 

[Dieselman]

VTD has based his opinion on personal experience? He says that he would rather take note of his own experience rather than a survey, Easy really...

The problem with the JDP survey is that it's not carried out on a statistically-unbiased population - anyone can fill in the form and the results are calculated from there. Even the questions do not conform to a statistically unbiased form. Hence why the OEMs - although interested as it does carry a lot of sway with the motoring media for some reason - use data from the dealer network to ascertain real-world levels of reliability.

But what was VTD experience apart from his own vehicle. I appreciate he may prefer his C class (and rightly so), the question was why.?

Regarding the surveys, given that people do fill them in and some models appear to perform better in some areas, are you suggesting that drivers of (e.g.) Mercedes tend to write their cas down and drivers of (e.g) Lexus tend to write their cars up.
I'm can't see why they would do that and who would influence that to happen.
If it doesn't happen then surely there is some validity to the survey as every respondant has an equal chance to give their view.

If one uses the reliability sections of the survey they will see the Lexus IS is way ahead of the C class.
To clarify, Lexus do nothing for me but should we ignore their acclaimed reliability.?
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/driver_power_2008/219489/mercedes_cclass_old.html
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/driver_power_2008/219612/lexus_is_new.html