E10 to be the new standard petrol?

[GeeJayW]

Greener petrol at UK pumps to target emissions

E10 contains less carbon, but fuel economy is worse, so tailpipe CO2 is the same or thereabouts...
Not compatible with some (many?) fuel systems.
Plus, where does the ethanol come from?

Discuss...

 

[BTB 500]

Plus, where does the ethanol come from?

Typically sugarcane, maize or wheat: Biofuels

 

[GeeJayW]

Typically sugarcane, maize or wheat: Biofuels

So we use agricultural land to make fuel instead of food? Should perhaps be waste biomass derived?

In the US, one of the biggest drivers for corn derived ethanol comes from the farming lobby under the guise of offering environmental benefits.

 

[grober]

What Is Bioethanol
I believe the arguement is that bio-ethanol is a real time "bio renewable" resource as opposed to a compressed time fossil fuel derived energy source. What naturally occuring or cultivated food plant life populations are replaced to make way for such fields of bioethanol producing crops remains a contraversial subject. At a practical level the incorporation of a higher concentration of oxygen containing molecules in petrol may have implications for elastometer components in older fuel systems and may encourage the gumming up of delicate injection components if left to long in a system- just ask any motorised garden mower shop

 

[190]

In the US, one of the biggest drivers for corn derived ethanol comes from the farming lobby under the guise of offering environmental benefits.

As the budget is about to pi$$ of farmers by removing the red diesel subsidy perhaps they think this E10 will placate them.

Meanwhile, the chancellor is expected to scrap a subsidy on diesel used by the farming and construction sector in an effort to encourage a switch to greener alternative fuel vehicles and help the UK meet its climate change targets.

Rishi Sunak is set to announce in next week's budget that red diesel - so-called because it is marked with a dye - will no longer attract a lower fuel duty. It currently accounts for about 15% of total diesel sales in the UK and costs the Treasury about £2.4bn a year in revenue.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The end of the subsidy on red diesel is long overdue.

When will we ever get back to living on the land, rather than living off it ?

It's amazing that two thirds of the country is agricultural land that's worth very little, when the world and her dog are crying out for larger, newer, affordable homes.

 

[Chrishazle]

If MB fuel systems have anything in common with Porsche, this will be of concern to owners of pre-1996 cars. Fuel lines on pre-1996 Porsches are not suitable for E10 petrol due to the lining of the fuel lines, which degrades with E10 and causes all sorts of problems. Well known on the PCGB etc forums, I had a pre-1996 Porsche for 25 years and when I took the car to Europe had to be careful to only use 99RON - and even then check the pump as in northern Spain I found a 99RON E10 pump! - as Europe has had standard 95RON E10 for years.

 

[slade1]

Going to have trouble with my Ponton, any anti E10 additives?

 

[GeeJayW]

Going to have trouble with my Ponton, any anti E10 additives?

Short answer... Nope!

 

[moonloops]

Ah, Biofuels - the stuff that is destroying rainforests on a grand scale and accelerating climate change

 

[Chrishazle]

The only answer for older cars seems to be to use 98-99RON petrol - which is more expensive but contains 5% or less ethanol. OK, it's more expensive, but for low annual mileage the incremental cost is low. I used nothing but that in my 968, and although the car would run OK on 95RON (which I used in the early days of my 968 coupe) both the coupe and the cab seemed a lot happier on the higher RON fuel. Other than that, I'd guess the only other option would be replacing fuel lines (both flow and return) with pipes suitable for E10, probably tricky to find for older cars and no doubt expensive!

Lots of info on this subject on the PCGB forum.

 

[GeeJayW]

The only answer for older cars seems to be to use 98-99RON petrol - which is more expensive but contains 5% or less ethanol. OK, it's more expensive, but for low annual mileage the incremental cost is low. I used nothing but that in my 968, and although the car would run OK on 95RON (which I used in the early days of my 968 coupe) both the coupe and the cab seemed a lot happier on the higher RON fuel. Other than that, I'd guess the only other option would be replacing fuel lines (both flow and return) with pipes suitable for E10, probably tricky to find for older cars and no doubt expensive!

Lots of info on this subject on the PCGB forum.

Yep. Unfortunately though some super-unleaded (97+) fuels achieve the higher RON by adding ethanol. So choosing your poison is more tricky than it first appears.

 

[markjay]

Surely it's only a stop-gap measure?

The answer to the cleaner air issue is not burning Carbon-based fuels (however derived) in our city centers.

The full answer will also involve not burning any form of Carbon-based fuel in our power plants.

So all this E10 instead of E5 issue is just a band-aid, isn't it?

 

[markjay]

To my mind, this is what we need in the UK:

Luxembourg has launched the world's first free nationwide public transport

Then ban private cars from city centers altogether (with exceptions for the disabled, tradesman vans, etc etc).

 

[190]

One crumb of comfort is that they are now having to declare ethanol content at the pumps which was not previously case. At least we should know what we are buying which is something as I will want to use fuel with the least ethanol content in my 40 year old motorcycle.

Two tongue in cheek questions:

The car will be fine but with reduced MPG. Will E10 therefore be cheaper because of the reduced calorific value.

Why aren't those hateful diesel users being punished as well.

 

[Chrishazle]

The government says that around 700,000 older cars still used on UK roads would be unable to run E10 fuel, due to the differing mix. Although it estimates a significant number of those will be scrapped by the time the switch is introduced in 2021, it notes that some “classic and cherished” older vehicles will remain. To ensure they can continue to run, the government plans to require that higher-octane ‘Super’ fuel will continue to be made to E5 standards while E10 becomes the default for ‘Premium’ grade 95 octane fuel.

The Department for Transport plans are subject to consultation, with members of the public given until 19 April to submit their views. The consultation can be read on the DfT website.

Government plans E10 petrol switch in 2021

 

[MadMerx]

Oh well, sales of V-Power fuel will increase and I will get more free coffees doing so...

 

[Will]

I’m pretty sure V-Power contains ethanol too though, certainly seen the E5 logo on the pumps around my way

 

[Martin 1]

Big question, is my '05 200 CLK safe with E10 ??

 

[Will]

Most new cars state the fuel types they can run on inside the filler flap, not sure on your CLK - it may just state unleaded/octane rating etc. Worth a look though!