E10 to be the new standard petrol?

[slade1]

Some time ago I filled the Ponton with Esso Extra, no Ethanol.
It’s expensive but only a few 1000s miles a year makes little difference in overall costs.
Many many decades ago working overseas in the sticks use to separate water in diesel fuel via large shammy leather in a funnel.

 

[BTB 500]

I’m pretty sure V-Power contains ethanol too though, certainly seen the E5 logo on the pumps around my way

Yup I think it contains up to 5% (as virtually all standard pump fuel does). As I understand it the commitment is that it won't go up to 10% in future though

 

[BTB 500]

Some time ago I filled the Ponton with Esso Extra, no Ethanol.

I've not heard of Esso Extra before ... AFAIK their higher octane fuel is Supreme+ which is currently ethanol free ... except in Devon, Cornwall, Teesside and Scotland!

 

[slade1]

OK, Esso Supreme

 

[GeeJayW]

Surely it's only a stop-gap measure?

The answer to the cleaner air issue is not burning Carbon-based fuels (however derived) in our city centers.

The full answer will also involve not burning any form of Carbon-based fuel in our power plants.

So all this E10 instead of E5 issue is just a band-aid, isn't it?

The best way towards improved urban air quality is to eliminate private cars all together. Even non-carbon-fuel powered vehicles produce particulates from tyres and brakes. Plus they still make indirect CO2 emissions until such times that the fuel/energy they do use is produced carbon-free.

One crumb of comfort is that they are now having to declare ethanol content at the pumps which was not previously case. At least we should know what we are buying which is something as I will want to use fuel with the least ethanol content in my 40 year old motorcycle.

Two tongue in cheek questions:

The car will be fine but with reduced MPG. Will E10 therefore be cheaper because of the reduced calorific value.

Why aren't those hateful diesel users being punished as well.

Standard Diesel is now B7, so also has oxygenates. Us hateful Diesel users are being punished in much the same way. In addition to making less CO2 than equivalent gasoline powered cars, Euro 6+ Diesels have similar environmental performance to Euro 5+ gasoline cars.

I’m pretty sure V-Power contains ethanol too though, certainly seen the E5 logo on the pumps around my way

Sadly they are now putting 5% bio-ethanol in VPower. Good to know it's not going to E10.

Most new cars state the fuel types they can run on inside the filler flap, not sure on your CLK - it may just state unleaded/octane rating etc. Worth a look though!

The main concern with E10+ is compatibility with elastomers used in the fuel system. Another issue is increased likelihood of introducing water into the fuel system.

 

[markjay]

...Sadly they are now putting 5% bio-ethanol in VPower. Good to know it's not going to E10....

The article did say that 95 Octane fuel will get E10 as standard, but I did not see anything regarding 98/99/100 Octane fuels? Maybe we'll be spared?

 

[markjay]

The best way towards improved urban air quality is to eliminate private cars all together. Even non-carbon-fuel powered vehicles produce particulates from tyres and brakes. Plus they still make indirect CO2 emissions until such times that the fuel/energy they do use is produced carbon-free....

Agreed:

To my mind, this is what we need in the UK:

Luxembourg has launched the world's first free nationwide public transport

Then ban private cars from city centers altogether (with exceptions for the disabled, tradesman vans, etc etc).

 

[Screwdriver]

There's an important difference to note here that I'm not sure most are aware of.

IF ethanol is being sourced from waste products like corn and sugarcane husks etc. (aka ligno-cellulosic biomass), then it is far less environmentally damaging than we are giving the fuel credit for. Nothing else short of natural gas is as "clean". However, if we are growing crops to burn as fuel (crop based biofuel) then we are right to criticize this move.

As a side note, biodiesel in higher concentrations (up to 20%) has been proven to not harm the vast majority of modern diesel fuel systems, with no additional maintenance required, and actually can benefit older mechanical injection systems due to its carbon cleansing properties.

Long term, the only way to go is renewably sourced electric propulsion. That said, the right biofuels may just be the necessary bridge to get us there.

 

[markjay]

...Long term, the only way to go is renewably sourced electric propulsion. That said, the right biofuels may just be the necessary bridge to get us there.

Renewable, or nuclear... what's good for the Sun, is surely good for us

 

[Chrishazle]

Had a quick search on the PCGB forum, the E10 problem with fuel lines has posts as far back as 2011 plus reports of owners of pre 1996 cars needing fuel lines replaced after using E10 fuel in Europe. However, they also show V Power as 5% with Shell saying they would not go further than 5% in V Power, and other makers higher RON fuels having less than 5% to zero ethanol.

 

[Screwdriver]

True, but I'm sure we'd prefer not having another Fukushima in our lifetimes. I use Bulb Energy to charge my home and my wife's EV. Based a Kilowatt level calculation, we save £270 every year over EDF energy and British Gas. More importantly, they're entirely renewable and super easy to get a hold off if we need help with anything. Genuine disruption in the power sector!

Shameless plug: If you're interested, this link will get you a £50. www.bulb.me/avivs9001

 

[GeeJayW]

Renewable, or nuclear... what's good for the Sun, is surely good for us

That depends on where you put the boundary conditions.

Consider the Earth to be thermodynamically represented by being inside a box. For the energy inside the box to remain stable and in balance, the energy entering the box from the Sun must be dissipated from the box into space at the same rate that it enters. Otherwise the energy inside the box increases or decreases. The rate of dissipation is a function of the temperature gradient, insulation/greenhouse properties of the atmosphere and the radiation area available.

The space end of the temperature gradient and the radiation area are both fixed. So assuming the radiation from the Sun is also nominally constant (though it does vary of course), the only basic variables are the greenhouse properties and the temperature inside the box.

Producing nuclear energy (energy that didn't come from the Sun) inside the box by definition raises the level of internal energy which must be dissipated into space and therefore adds to global warming/climate change.

There are no freebies here. We need to be using much less energy, but instead continue to use more.

 

[st13phil]

SP95-E10 fuels have been creating havoc with older vehicles in France and elsewhere in continental Europe for years, and there are good compatibility lists around if you search for them.

A couple of sources: ACEA E10 petrol fuel: vehicle compatibility list as of August 2018 and another source in French

 

[Alfie]

Interesting read. Thanks to those who clearly know a lot about this.

I recall that 110-115 Ron fuel was available for a while. Anyone know anything about this?
I’m about to start using a good octane booster in a highly tuned engined vehicle I have.

 

[st13phil]

I recall that 110-115 Ron fuel was available for a while. Anyone know anything about this?

There are still a few high-octane pumps around, generally very close to motor race circuits. Google will probably turn something up.

Edit to add: Gulf offer 102-octane fuel at Silverstone

 

[SW18]

Interesting read. Thanks to those who clearly know a lot about this.

I recall that 110-115 Ron fuel was available for a while. Anyone know anything about this?
I’m about to start using a good octane booster in a highly tuned engined vehicle I have.

I recall BP offering this in the past, which was supposed to be genuinely more powerful in certain cars. It did cost £2.40 a litre though, at a time when fuel was roughly the same price as now.

BP launches 'UK's highest-octane fuel' | Autocar

 

[GeeJayW]

I recall BP offering this in the past, which was supposed to be genuinely more powerful in certain cars. It did cost £2.40 a litre though, at a time when fuel was roughly the same price as now.

BP launches 'UK's highest-octane fuel' | Autocar

I'm sure that 'super-duper' unleaded (99+) helps with some engines to develop more power, though my guess is that not many (if any) will be calibrated to take advantage of anything north of 102 RON. That said, there is more to it than the headline RON figure.

 

[MadMerx]

It looks as though Ultimate 102 is consigned to history as a quick check of the local BP stations only shows Ultimate which I think is 97/98 RON.
The only thing I owned that needed crazy rich fuel was a full supersport Yamaha R6 race bike that needed a minimum of Optimax at the time, but went ran best of all when given some avgas in the tank! ;-)

 

[Bellow]

I have 110 RON in my tank. Only cost £0.74/litre too.

 

[alabbasi]

adding ethanol increases octane