E220 2011 W212 OM651 Starting problem

[xlrik]

Hi all - new here and joined to scan through information to try and find an answer to my sons E220 which is currently a none starter.
Car was operating fine with no problems but he pulled into services for a cuppa stop and then car wouldn't start. We had to have it recovered to his home and I took a look at it.

On close inspection it had the Black Death problem and it looked like all but one injector needed reseating - so I ordered parts to do them all. Before that I checked fault codes with a basic reader and the only fault visible was "Camshaft Position Sensor" so ordered a replacement at the same time.

Cleaned and replaced the injectors and recut the seats - with new bolts and copper washers - all torqued down to spec and that repair is sound (had to replace a Delphi injector connector plug because the carbon had made it go brittle from the black death). Once back together i also changed the camshaft sensor.

Unfortunately the car still will not start - even with Easy Start - it does every now and again get a small sign of life like it is going to run but it literally is for a split second and then it stops.
Tried so far:
Fuel is to rail (admittedly not sure on pressure)
Fuel pump fuse is good
Fuel pump relay (tried eliminating this by bridging the connections as shown in a previous post)
Checked OBD status again and still comes up with Camshaft sensor but i can now clear it which I couldnt before - it also doesnt come up on every attempted start.

Tempted to change the Crankshaft Sensor but cannot find a way to get to it - I think it is on bell housing at rear of engine but cannot find a way to get to it from above or below.

Any advice would be gratefully accepted - i am searching for an Indy in Sheffield to take it to because I feel i have exhausted my technical ability.

regards
Richard.

 

[mersum1es]

If you can, read rail pressure. Should be over 150bar when cranking. Measure injector spill off leak (tank line). Minute cranking (no need to get it run), leak should not exceed 20ml in any injector.

Yep sometimes cheapo codes readrs mess with cam and crank codes

 

[xlrik]

Thanks for advice this would be beyond my technical knowledge so looking to book it in at local Indy Merc garage.

Thanks though.....

 

[Oleks1992]

Check your timing, could be stratched timing chain. On xentry star machine you can check synchronisation between crankshaft and camshafts

 

[Sheffield Col]

There is an indy near Meadowhall, Autotecnic Amos Road.

 

[Tonygw]

How old is the fuel filter? could be blocked? just a thought

 

[xlrik]

Thanks All

Even more confused now.

Indy (Independent Benz Repairs in Sheffield - not known to me before) have the vehicle after recovery and there are no fault codes but only way they could start and run it was to disconnect the Camshaft Sensor (the new one I fitted a few days ago) and they could then start the car but it runs like a bag of spanners - they tell me they suspect it needs a new engine because its dropped a valve.

I am suspicious that it is still the Crankshaft sensor and that the synchronisation between the Camshaft sensor and the Crankshaft sensor is the reason for the problem - they have quoted min £2500.00 for new recon engine or min £1700 for Head rebuild - but then if any further damage then there could be a big bill.

I am at the end of my tether with the vehicle - it ran perfect before it literally would just not start after a 20 minute cuppa break after a long run. Surely if it had dropped a valve it would have shown signs of letting go before the no start.

 

[xlrik]

PS Thanks for the Autotecnics detail I will try them tomorrow to see if they can give me a second opinion.

 

[Jobsworth]

The chain has jumped I’d say

 

[geoffus]

How do they know its a dropped valve, did they do a compression test ?

 

[xlrik]

Hi no compression test done by the indy and I suspect that they have only basic fault code reader - another member suggested trying Autotecnics who on greater investigation have the correct fault diagnostics - I think it would be worth retrieving the car and see if they would look at it for a second opinion - I would rather get the work done by someone that can advise if it is worth the cost of repair.

 

[xlrik]

So current situation is no Local indys are interested because they all feel it will be an invasive job - most seem to think it will be the timing chain that has jumped - I dont have any options left as no local garages want engine jobs.

Basically we are resigned to looking at scrap value for the vehicle which as a none runner is heart attack territory!

 

[m80]

Prior to 'your' repair,
was it rattling any, specifically at start up?
When you removed the injectors did you lay them down prior to reinstalling?

 

[xlrik]

Hi M80 - Yes it was rattling only on first few moments of start up which I now understand signals that the Timing chain adjuster needed attention (Sorry but my son only had the car 5 months so I assume the previous owner knew it had an issue).

When I pulled the injectors (3 were leaking) I took them out and numbered them and then laid them on a clean wooden board with the injector numbers written on it so we didnt mix them up - we were advised to do this so they didnt need recoding. The cleaning of the carbon was the hardest part because it was alot of build up.

My problem is all the garages I have spoken to are flat out so dont want any extra work but the 3 Merc specialist / german car specialist closest to me have all said they just dont do invasive engine jobs any more - all advising to go and find a company specialising in rebuilding engines - every number they give me turns out to say the same - we used to rebuid engines but dont ay more because there is no money in it.

 

[m80]

As above there is chance your chain has jumped a tooth or two, as your son attempted to restart is possible.
But these injectors don't like lying down, they get airlocks that are a bitch to purge.

The cam out of sync looks more than likely.

So the condition of the engine, head specifically, is unknown.
I don't see why a dropped valve is diagnosed, but a bent valve or more v possibly.

Take care of those issues and the injectors are also likely to be awkward to purged. It can be done with running the engine but if a cylinder or two are failing you might screw your big ends with the imbalance.

I'm more than happy to listen to others thoughts as I'm just a DIY spanner monkey.

 

[mersum1es]

only way they could start and run it was to disconnect the Camshaft Sensor (the new one I fitted a few days ago) and they could then start the car

Thats utter BS, it will NEVER start without cam sensor data

 

[Sheffield Col]

How many miles has it done ? The 651 engine is bullet proof, it will do star ship mileage with no problems if its not a stop/ start car. Has your car got Stop/Start ? The Stop/Start puts a strain on the timing chain and it stretches. It's my guess the timing chain has possibly jumped a tooth. Ps. just my Two penny worth.

 

[xlrik]

Hi all
Thanks for answers - Car has now been sold for parts because the engine repair would be equal value to the car. Difficulty getting any sense out of Indy Merc specialists in this area so decided to cut our losses and get out of it.

 

[Mercman62]

Hi M80 - Yes it was rattling only on first few moments of start up which I now understand signals that the Timing chain adjuster needed attention (Sorry but my son only had the car 5 months so I assume the previous owner knew it had an issue).

When I pulled the injectors (3 were leaking) I took them out and numbered them and then laid them on a clean wooden board with the injector numbers written on it so we didnt mix them up - we were advised to do this so they didnt need recoding. The cleaning of the carbon was the hardest part because it was alot of build up.

My problem is all the garages I have spoken to are flat out so dont want any extra work but the 3 Merc specialist / german car specialist closest to me have all said they just dont do invasive engine jobs any more - all advising to go and find a company specialising in rebuilding engines - every number they give me turns out to say the same - we used to rebuid engines but dont ay more because there is no money in it.

Why not go to a proper mercedes dealer, they have all the proper kit & knowledge. They don't cost any more than an Indy.
I trust inchcape Nottingham. Service all my merc's

 

[xlrik]

Hi Mercman62
We tried the local Merc dealer (I use them for my GLC all the time for service) and they were not interested in the job - they said it wasn't their type of thing the engine would either need removing and rebuilding or they could source a reconditioned engine - either way the advice was they dont do work like that and we should look for a more affordable solution.

Anyway car has been sold for spares now so thanks for your reply but this thread can be closed by an admin if they wish.

Richard