E320CDI W211 fitting 235 tyres instead of 245 on 17" wheels

[Stocho]

Hi,

The standard fit for W211 E-class is 245 45 R17. However availability of these tyres is quite poor and prices are quite high.

Any views on fitting 235 45 R17 tyres? According to Mercedes-Benz Fitting Chart and Wheel Fitment Guide | Alloy Wheels Direct

for W211 even 205 60 R16 is an approved fit and also for W210 235 45 R17 are an approved fir for 17 8J alloys.

Is there any danger in fitting 235 45 R17 tyres on standard W211 alloys from:
a) handling / safety / performance perspective?
b) legal perspective?

Using 235 tyres instead of 245 would give much better availability and/or lower price. For example WinterContact™ TS 850P is just not available in 245 at all while available in 235 size.

 

[OneForTheRoad]

235 is abetter fit on a 8j rim - 245 is on the limit. it will however knock out the speedo a tad.

 

[Stocho]

Having searched on the internet it appears if I fit 235 instead of 245 even if it is safer (because better tyres are available such as WinterContact™ TS 850P) the insurance mobsters will have a party at my expense every year....

Looked at 16 inch 225 R16 55 that are also merceded approved ... and the same story grossly overpriced and poor availability not just compared to 215 55 R16 but also compared to what should be a more expensive tyre 235 45 R17.


Looks like thanks to Mercedes have to be stuck with unreasonably expensive and less safe tyres ... just because they did not approve 235 45 R17.

 

[markjay]

What is the main issue for you?

That 245 tyres are more expensive than 235 tyres?

Or that the particular tyre make and model of your choice is not available in 245 but only in 235?

Or both?

 

[Stocho]

What is the main issue for you?
That 245 tyres are more expensive than 235 tyres?
Or that the particular tyre make and model of your choice is not available in 245 but only in 235?
Or both?

Well both as they are related issues:
I would like to have Continental WinterContact™ TS 850P . Excellent tyres, top in many tests. I had them on W210 and then moved to w211 summer and winter and lasted a hell a lot of miles even though were used even in summer (and even though I usually burn tyres fast). Not available in 245 but available in 235.

Given that my preferred tyre is just not available in MB approved size will have to fit Michelin CrossClimate+
These are available as both 235 and 245. 245 is about 35% more expensive while the difference is really minimal, perhaps just 3% or less (taking into account that tyre includes a sidewall.)


So just because MB chose not to approve 235 in addition to 245:
1. I have to use inferior, less safe tyres
2. Pay more for those tyres.
3. More trouble sourcing them as fewer outlets sell them.

I suppose better than Porsche +UK insurance mobsters. As Porsche approves not just size but actually demands "N" marked tyres. In most countries it matters not but in the UK insurance mob could use it as an opportunity to decline a claim if someone fits exactly the same sized and specced tyres but without "N" marks.

 

[Gazwould]

Revelation !

OK who here knows that tyre sizes vary from manufacturer to manufacturer ?

 

[Stocho]

Revelation !

OK who here knows that tyre sizes vary from manufacturer to manufacturer ?

Well because MB chose to approve just 245 and not 235 as well means that best on the market tyres are just not available for Mercedes E Class - I think not everyone is aware of that. One would assume that best tyres would be made in E-Class sizes given that it is both a premium car and also quite a common car.

Best winter (and for me all season) tyre - Continental WinterContact™ TS 860 - not available
Next best (older version of the above) Continental WinterContact™ TS 850 - also not available

 

[Gazwould]

No I'm talking when a 235 could actually measure around 225 or 245 !

Likewise with aspect ratio profiles .

 

[Stocho]

No I'm talking when a 235 could actually measure around 225 or 245 !
Likewise with aspect ratio profiles .

Well after researching the issue I have no doubt that 235 45 R17 would a be a safe fit, probably safer than 245 even without even taking into account better tyres available in 235. This is the case that 245 is on the max limit of 8J 17 rims while 235 is closer to the middle.

However UK insurers would jump on this to refuse cover / decline claim.

 

[Gazwould]

235 offer less rim protection on 8J but much better than 225 .

A wide 245 offers best protection and also let's you know earlier of handling issues , more feedback and earlier.

 

[Stocho]

A wide 245 offers best protection and also let's you know earlier of handling issues , more feedback and earlier.

And does 245 really offers more handling feedback? I would imagine that the best tyres would make a hell lot more of the difference especially vs the many Ditchfinder++ brands .

 

[toolman1954]

The standard fit for W211 E-class is 245 45 R17. However availability of these tyres is quite poor and prices are quite high.

I just looked on "My Tyres" website, ( random choice of supplier ) and they have a choice of ..50.. yes 50.....different Winter Tyres, size 245 x 45 x 17, including a Conti Winter Contact TS830P 99H XL MO fitment ( so Mercedes recommended ) @ £155-40. These have excellent reviews and prompted me to get a pair of these to fit to my car.
How can you say that the availability of tyres is poor ??? Prices too high ?? well you pays your money and takes your choice. How much do you really want to spend?? Like most things in life you tailor your needs to meet your budget.

Steve.

 

[Stocho]

including a Conti Winter Contact TS830P 99H XL MO fitment ( so Mercedes recommended ) @ £155-40. These have excellent reviews and prompted me to get a pair of these to fit to my car.
How can you say that the availability of tyres is poor ??? Prices too high ?? well you pays your money and takes your choice. How much do you really want to spend?? Like most things in life you tailor your needs to meet your budget.

The tyres you have highlighted good as they were are actually TWO generations behind. The current, award winning, version is TS860, The one before is TS850. In fact I had TS850 on my W210 many years ago that I moved to W211. So TS830 are about 5-10 years behind the current version. And H speed rating....

And price wise, you are paying £155 for probably a decade old technology while in size 225 you could have current state of the art TS860 for under £110.

So no, it is not about a price being high, it is about price being disproportionately high compared to other similar sizes that would actually go safely (even probably with improved safety) on the same rims.

 

[markjay]

...So no, it is not about a price being high, it is about price being disproportionately high compared to other similar sizes that would actually go safely (even probably with improved safety) on the same rims.

My previous W203, my current W204, and the wive's Kia Soul all came with 205/55R16 tyres, which is about the most common size there is.

As result, we are spoilt for choice. I can get premium brands for very low cost (Dunlop Bluresponse for £50, Conti for £60 etc).

However the wive's previous car, Renault Scenic, came with unusually-sized tyres, 205/60R16, which meant we had to buy Michelin tyres at £110 each.

So yes, when a tyre size is adopted by many car manufacturers, there are more tyre makes to choose from, and the price drops-off dramatically due to fierce competition in that market segment from rival tyre manufacturers.

Not sure how this is Mercedes' fault though?

'The new E-Class boasts cheap tyres' is not exactly a good USP for a premium brand...

And I also don't understand your comments about 'Safety'? You seem to expect Mercedes to make their tyre choices based on car magazines' reviews? And at any rate you say that a tyre that gets near-same marks to your own preferred model does exist, but it is more expensive? If so then it boils down again to price - as you are apparently not prepared to pay the asking price for the tyres that you consider near-equally 'safe'.

Might I suggest that erhaps your quarrel is with not with Mercedes, but with the tyre manufacturers, who (a) choose not to produce certain tyre models in low-demand sizes, and (b) when they do make tyres in an uncommon size, they charge a premium for it.

Aa for insurers, they are not really in position to test the handling characteristic of cars with tyres not approved by the manufacturer, so they must assume that there's a potential risk for them there.

And the argument about safety is not really applicable here either: firstly because insurers can't really be expected to base their premiums on ratings given to tyres in car magazine reviews, and secondly, even if they did, you still have the option of buying for your car a tyre you consider safe, yet you seem to expect the insurers to allow you to buy a non-approved tyre size because it's cheaper - taking the risk while allowing you to save money by not buying the more-expensive tyres?

Said that, while I may not agree with your reasoning, I do have sympathy for your predicamnet, which sadly is not unique, as Mini (the old one) and original Lexus SUV owners can testify.

 

[MercedesDriver]

I had the same dillema last year and bought Nexen WinGuard Sport 2 in 245/45/17.
Reading the tyre tests can be misleading in making a decision. You will notice that there is no mention of testing vehicle, is it FWD, RWD, 4x4, type, brand and so on, and I can bet it’s not a Merc.
So, fix your budget and buy the best tyre (according to the test results) you can.

 

[Stocho]

Not sure how this is Mercedes' fault though?

Might I suggest that erhaps your quarrel is with not with Mercedes, but with the tyre manufacturers, who (a) choose not to produce certain tyre models in low-demand sizes, and (b) when they do make tyres in an uncommon size, they charge a premium for it.

No, as far as tyre manufacturers are concerned their behavior is understandable. Like any business they love market segmentation as this allows to charge higher prices. Just like totally unfairly, train companies charge more for peal fares than off-peak - just because they can and it benefits them. (Even at the cheapest off peak prices peak time trains costs would be fully covered due to the volume of travel. And if gvernment wants off-peak services under universal rail service either off-peak travellers or the Government should pay for it.)

However what benefit Mercedes have from Third parties fleecing their customers? I would imagine none. So why not approve not just 245 but also 235 and perhaps even 225?

Aa for insurers, they are not really in position to test the handling characteristic of cars with tyres not approved by the manufacturer, so they must assume that there's a potential risk for them there.

UK is one of the very few countries with law so much biased in favour of insurance companies who abuse it to no end. In many countries proposal forms are much shorter and insurers would find themselves wrong side of the law if they tried to artificially segment the market based on such things as a small sticker in the rear windscreen.

 

[Flyinspanner]

245/45/17 has lots of availability. (It was the standard fitment on many Subaru’s)

r Tyres – Click & Fit at Blackcircles.com


There is an extra £40 off a set of Crossclimate+ at the moment too!

You can arrange fitting at a local centre through the site too.

 

[Stocho]

245/45/17 has lots of availability.

There is an extra £40 off a set of Crossclimate+ at the moment too!

I do not count DitchFinder-, DitchFinder and Ditchfinder+ or even Ditchfinder++ brands. I bought the car with two GoodYears that were 6-7mm. These will be disposed off when I put those alloys to use by buying new tyres. (Car is currently on W211 prefacelift wheels that I used on W210 and then transferred to facelift W211 asthey has almost brand new TS850 tyres.)

I am really after the best tyres which for the way I use my car is TS860, failing that TS850 - both not available. These are the best winter tyres that handle well even in summer and lasted me probably 20k miles even though I was driving them all season (something that is supposed to wear out winter tyres really quick) and I am not the gentlest of drivers.

So I either will go for two generations behind and decade old technology TS830 or for Crossclimate+ - just can't make my mind up which ones of the two.

There are tow W211 facelift in the family one is only UK driven and mainly at night so for it TS860 would be ideal.

The other is also driven to the continent in summer so require summer tyres too. But now I will do away with changing winter/summer and slowly transition to Crossclimate+.

The temptation is there also to switch the first car to Crossclimate+ as this would make things so much easier to have the same tyres on both cars, could even kep a couple of proper spares in the garage. But... snow / ice performance of Crossclimate+ while much better than that of summer tyres is considerably below performance of TS830.

 

[markjay]

245/45/17 has lots of availability. (It was the standard fitment on many Subaru’s)

r Tyres – Click & Fit at Blackcircles.com


There is an extra £40 off a set of Crossclimate+ at the moment too!

You can arrange fitting at a local centre through the site too.

Michelin CrossClimate repeatedly get top marks in almost every tyre test review.

I was seriously reconsidering these for my car, but they were only available with load index 94, and I was concerned about the potential ride quality issues due to the stiffer sidewall (the original fitment for my car is 91).

But if Michelin CrossClimate+ are available for the OP's car, I would not hesitate buying them if I was in his position.

 

[MercedesDriver]

So why not approve not just 245 but also 235 and perhaps even 225?

Because of speedo accuracy which is setup on the basis of 245/45/17 ratio. In order to maintain that accuracy 235 in 17” would probably have to be something like 235/48/17 and 225 in 17” would be 225/54/17 and just immagine the prices of those.

Might I suggest that erhaps your quarrel is with not with Mercedes, but with the tyre manufacturers, who (a) choose not to produce certain tyre models in low-demand sizes, and (b) when they do make tyres in an uncommon size, they charge a premium for it.

Exactly.