E400 bargains?

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SW18

MB Enthusiast
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Idle browsing suggests that E400d are an absolute bargain at the moment! I was looking at estates and new ones with the full spec are supposed to be £58k for factory order, but MBUK is listing some in stock at £43k at the moment, and selling ex-demo 1-year-old ones for 38k or less. Seems like a great deal.

I wondered if it's a diesel thing, but the E53 AMG estate can be had for £56k down from £72k, or about £50k ex-demo.

Is this a recent thing, or COVID-related, or clearing the decks for the facelift model?

I have no strong need to buy (and the man-maths does not stack up) but these seem like great deals. It's a shame that every single one listed has a black interior...
 
Idle browsing suggests that E400d are an absolute bargain at the moment! I was looking at estates and new ones with the full spec are supposed to be £58k for factory order, but MBUK is listing some in stock at £43k at the moment, and selling ex-demo 1-year-old ones for 38k or less. Seems like a great deal.

I wondered if it's a diesel thing, but the E53 AMG estate can be had for £56k down from £72k, or about £50k ex-demo.

Is this a recent thing, or COVID-related, or clearing the decks for the facelift model?

I have no strong need to buy (and the man-maths does not stack up) but these seem like great deals. It's a shame that every single one listed has a black interior...
@SW18 I wouldn't pay any attention to list price when trying to determine if it's a good deal used and how much it's depreciated.

You can get £9k off the list price right now. Helps to work out a more realistic figure for initial depreciation.
 
@SW18 I think it's more related to the fact that folks buying new cars are increasingly switching to EVs or hybrids of some kind, so anything that is just a regular diesel or petrol car (without any kind of electrification to lower emissions) is likely to have heavier discounts from new.
 
I am just guessing but it is most likely because of facelift comming in. I think dealerships need to get rid of them quickly.
Couple months ago I have purchased E class 220d very good spec (Night Edition) 10 months old 11k miles for less than 60% list price.

It's was my first premium car purchase and I don't really have that much experience in buying cars so it's hard to say ... but I think these are very good deals out there right now.
 
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everyone just got a bit more "carpe diem" from all the pandemic worries probably. By my eyes, the average engine displacement of new cars in my side of town is creeping up.

220d used to be the most common badge to see on a new Mercedes, but now I see more 250d, 300d for C classes and 400d for E/GLE for 19 or newer plates. The pattern is similar for Audi and BMW. Lots of 330s where 320 used to be king, and I raised an eyebrow when i saw a 4.0 on an audi that wasn't an RS recently.

Those who aren't going electric seem to be getting beefier machines.
 
We need to be wary of pricing on “made for stock”. Silver / black basic spec cars. As we’ve seen there are often airfields full of them, around the factories and the U.K. These are the cars that get dumped at a discount to list, as new, preregistered or ex-management or ex-demo.

The rule of thumb of 50% depreciation every three years remains a good generalisation

Prices are always harder for new product and softer for pre-facelift.

Have diesels given way to petrol? Obviously. Have EV’s taken over from ICE? Only in the Company car sector, because of the loopy tax breaks, but EV’s will leak to private buyers once the huge depreciation has kicked in.

Lockdown effect? Has to be massive. Cars don’t sell themselves. If people aren’t using and showing off cars, why replace? And we’ve poured billions into cheap credit for the manufacturers. Of course they’re going to hold fields of unsold cars rather than discount early.

Will the Consumer demand recover? Probably: the typical MB client has had a good lockdown. They’re richer, more relaxed, and gagging to spend and drive. The under 35’s: not so much.
 
everyone just got a bit more "carpe diem" from all the pandemic worries probably. By my eyes, the average engine displacement of new cars in my side of town is creeping up.

220d used to be the most common badge to see on a new Mercedes, but now I see more 250d, 300d for C classes and 400d for E/GLE for 19 or newer plates. The pattern is similar for Audi and BMW. Lots of 330s where 320 used to be king, and I raised an eyebrow when i saw a 4.0 on an audi that wasn't an RS recently.

Those who aren't going electric seem to be getting beefier machines.

That '4.0' you saw is the new designation Audi is using for its engines and has nothing to do with displacement. It's actually a '40' and means the car has an engine generating between 165hp and 198hp, almost certainly a 4-banger too so nothing special apart from its efficiency.
 
everyone just got a bit more "carpe diem" from all the pandemic worries probably. By my eyes, the average engine displacement of new cars in my side of town is creeping up.

220d used to be the most common badge to see on a new Mercedes, but now I see more 250d, 300d for C classes and 400d for E/GLE for 19 or newer plates. The pattern is similar for Audi and BMW. Lots of 330s where 320 used to be king, and I raised an eyebrow when i saw a 4.0 on an audi that wasn't an RS recently.

Those who aren't going electric seem to be getting beefier machines.

That '4.0' you saw is the new designation Audi is using for its engines and has nothing to do with displacement. It's actually a '40' and means the car has an engine generating between 165hp and 198hp, almost certainly a 4-banger too so nothing special apart from its efficiency.
That’s just it - the 3 German makes are all playing at it. Merc and BMW ‘25’, 250, ‘30’, and 300 modes are all 2.0 4-cyl and so Audi has gone one-up by labelling their 2.0 4-cyl engines ‘40’ and ‘45’.

The only genuine 4.0 cars available now are the BMW M range (and even then only the M5 and up), the AMG 63 range and the Audi RS range. And those have to be averaged out by ultra-low or zero emissions models, so owners can thank all the EQC and eTron owners for doing their carbon offsetting for them.

It’s because the new EU fleet emissions rules require manufacturers’ total fleet emissions to achieve ever-lower average CO2 levels. That can only be achieved by ever smaller engines to achieve the targeted power outputs, so the badges are inflating to make up for it.
 
Let's take a look at SMMT car registration figures for Feb 2021

If you're comparing number of cars registered in Feb 2021 vs Feb 2020, the biggest drop is for diesel cars (61% down) and even regular petrol cars down too (by 44%)

Small numbers still, but it's anything electrified (including MHEV diesels) that had higher numbers in Feb 2021 vs Feb 2020 - this is where the growth in new car sales will come from as time marches on

If we look at Feb 2021 vs Feb 2020 by brand, then Mercedes had 34% fewer cars registered in Feb 2021 vs Feb 2020

Just my opinion, but MB (like many others) have been so slow to adapt to the pace of change in the car market, in terms of the shift towards electrification. I think even after lockdown ends, MB won't get back to pre covid levels of diesel sales. More bargains to come, I suspect, for those happy to buy a new or nearly new MB diesel.

Link to SMMT data Car Registrations
 
That '4.0' you saw is the new designation Audi is using for its engines and has nothing to do with displacement. It's actually a '40' and means the car has an engine generating between 165hp and 198hp, almost certainly a 4-banger too so nothing special apart from its efficiency.
@sgregory124 Yes indeed. That confuses many of us! Just look at the BMW 330e. It's a 2.0 litre four cylinder petrol plug in hybrid, but some just assume it's a 3 litre straight six!
 
everyone just got a bit more "carpe diem" from all the pandemic worries probably. By my eyes, the average engine displacement of new cars in my side of town is creeping up.

220d used to be the most common badge to see on a new Mercedes, but now I see more 250d, 300d for C classes and 400d for E/GLE for 19 or newer plates. The pattern is similar for Audi and BMW. Lots of 330s where 320 used to be king, and I raised an eyebrow when i saw a 4.0 on an audi that wasn't an RS recently.

Those who aren't going electric seem to be getting beefier machines.
Are you sure the Audi didnt say 40 which signifies an engine power rating of 167-201hp
 
Let's take a look at SMMT car registration figures for Feb 2021
If you're comparing number of cars registered in Feb 2021 vs Feb 2020, the biggest drop is for diesel cars (61% down) and even regular petrol cars down too (by 44%)
Small numbers still, but it's anything electrified (including MHEV diesels) that had higher numbers in Feb 2021 vs Feb 2020 - this is where the growth in new car sales will come from as time marches on
If we look at Feb 2021 vs Feb 2020 by brand, then Mercedes had 34% fewer cars registered in Feb 2021 vs Feb 2020
Just my opinion, but MB (like many others) have been so slow to adapt to the pace of change in the car market, in terms of the shift towards electrification. I think even after lockdown ends, MB won't get back to pre covid levels of diesel sales. More bargains to come, I suspect, for those happy to buy a new or nearly new MB diesel.
Link to SMMT data Car Registrations
Electrics, using the broadest description, are the growth area, purely on the back of tax breaks from the UK taxpayer and the threat of multi-billion Euro fines from the EV. (We thank you UK taxpayers for giving EV owners their massive tax advantage).

Although I'm keen on the new tech, I still worry about the other 7 billion. Will these EU rules simply make European car manufacturers unattractive to the rest of the world? Is it "Emperor's new clothes" to say that South Africa better get its act together an put in charging stations all over the nation? Ditto Mumbai ? Is the woman in the street going to buy electric minis at twice the price, when she's not comfortable with the tech or charging method? And will Rishi just roll over and continue to give British EV users this massive tax break?



Screenshot 2021-03-19 at 12.57.04.png
 
Electrics, using the broadest description, are the growth area, purely on the back of tax breaks from the UK taxpayer and the threat of multi-billion Euro fines from the EV. (We thank you UK taxpayers for giving EV owners their massive tax advantage).

Although I'm keen on the new tech, I still worry about the other 7 billion. Will these EU rules simply make European car manufacturers unattractive to the rest of the world? Is it "Emperor's new clothes" to say that South Africa better get its act together an put in charging stations all over the nation? Ditto Mumbai ? Is the woman in the street going to buy electric minis at twice the price, when she's not comfortable with the tech or charging method? And will Rishi just roll over and continue to give British EV users this massive tax break?



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@MikeInWimbledon EV technology is evolving every day, and just because EVs are much more expensive than ICE cars today, doesn't mean they will be forever. Things are changing really quickly, and just take a look at how much investment is going into this new area. Yes, infrastructure is an issue but again, that's evolving too. I have a two rapid chargers installed by the council at the end of my street, and I've got a wealth of other options at supermarkets etc within 1 mile. 3 years ago, there was nothing! When you look at countries like India, where pollution is such a huge challenge, then it's domestic manufacturers that will rise to the occasion rather than European companies like Mercedes. China is so far ahead (as are their consumers) that their domestic manufacturers export their EVs to other markets, like Thailand. If premium EVs from China ever make it to our shores, it will highlight how behind the times (and relatively expensive for EVs), MB is (and those consumers who are not badge snobs will benefit, just like the ones switching to cheaper MG EVs which are exceptionally good value)

Over the next two decades, it's likely to be VW, Tesla and a bunch of Chinese EV firms that will become global giants in EVs.

You also have to remember that for younger consumers at least, tastes and preferences are changing. Owning (or even having their own dedicated car) is becoming less of a priority, and mobility (whether it's ride sharing, car subscriptions etc) will change the dynamics of the market too. Everything is changing in the car industry, not just how they are powered. Exciting times ahead, unless you can't stand change of any kind!
 
@MikeInWimbledon EV technology is evolving every day, and just because EVs are much more expensive than ICE cars today, doesn't mean they will be forever. Things are changing really quickly, and just take a look at how much investment is going into this new area. Yes, infrastructure is an issue but again, that's evolving too. I have a two rapid chargers installed by the council at the end of my street, and I've got a wealth of other options at supermarkets etc within 1 mile. 3 years ago, there was nothing! When you look at countries like India, where pollution is such a huge challenge, then it's domestic manufacturers that will rise to the occasion rather than European companies like Mercedes. China is so far ahead (as are their consumers) that their domestic manufacturers export their EVs to other markets, like Thailand. If premium EVs from China ever make it to our shores, it will highlight how behind the times (and relatively expensive for EVs), MB is (and those consumers who are not badge snobs will benefit, just like the ones switching to cheaper MG EVs which are exceptionally good value)

I'm glad you agree with me that MB and BMW are handing over their lead to Asia as a result of EU regulation. Can VW survive? Who knows? Can't say that it feels obvious that they will at the moment.

I'm just as much of a New Tech / First mover enthusiast as you. But there's enormous risk and cost over the next two decades, as MB, BMW hand over global leadership to Japan, China and maybe India.

It's great to see EV's taking over the Cities, I just suspect that wiring up for the needs of the seven billion in KwaZulu-Natal, , Russia, and South America might be a tad more difficult. A friend is planning a road trip around all of Australia in 2021, thanks to lockdown. You can be sure he won't be using an EV.

Will the technically superior solutions win ? My Betamax C7 was far superior to any VHS, but it lost. As did the technically superior, but painfully expensive Laserdisc and Blu-ray.

The Dinosaurs think that the future looks like an electric version of an ICE motor car. but, as you say, the future will be different.

Typewriters, Photocopiers, Telex machines, Fax machines, Record players, Tape recorders, and telephones have already disappeared in the last three decades.

Let's see if Tesla becomes a 21st century Rank Xerox, WANG or Apple....


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@SW18

“I actually think that the residual value performance for diesels will get stronger, because the demand for the cars will still be there,” said Pontin. “In the next six months to a year, we are going to start to see a perceived shortage of diesel product [due to lower new registrations] in relation to demand. As a result, pricing and residual values will get stronger, and for those people who still register a new diesel car, they are going to make more money than people expected [when they sell it].”

Autocar article on UK car residual values
 

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