E500.org

[500E]

Some information on the W124 E500

http://www.e500.org

If you see any issues (there probably will be some) or incorrect info, please let me know.

 

[500E]

Before anyone says it, the photo gallery is yet to come.......

 

[talbir]

You mention Brabus and Kleeman, but one of the more famous conversions was by Renntech.

They did a 6.2 litre chucking out 475bhp mated to a 6 spd manual - I have the very same engine for my black 500E, complete with 6 spd manual.

Also, i believe the Brabus was a 7.2 not a 6.9 ?


thanks, nice and neat website.

talbir

 

[gurpz]

Is this your website, if so its very nice a perfect guide on information on the E500/E500E/E60 models.

A small mistake I spotted is that on the History page it says the following:

'500E Pre-Facelift with 18" BRABUS alloys & clear lenses'

Those wheels aint Brabus wheels, there called 'Sador' and where available on the facelift W210's in 17''.

 

[stats007]

Looks good, but I'm never going to agree with:

The Mercedes-Benz 500E is a supercar

 

[500E]

Why not? People have different conceptions of supercars...and I think this is one, an affordable one at that.

Is there any fixed definition of a supercar?

Thanks,
Bill

 

[stats007]

Not per se - though it's pretty obvious what is and what isn't. A family saloon with a large engine just can't qualify - where's the sense of occasion, exotic design and wow factor that stops people in the street? Without the Porsche link it would just be another 5 litre Merc .

 

[500E]

Why does it need to stop people in the street? It will definatly stop the people who know what it is in thier tracks, believe me!

I think the modern definition of a supercar is fast and exotic - I think the 500E fulfills both. Porsche didnt have a massive impact on the vehicle, there is not even 1 Porsche badge anywhere on it. Its a rare vehicle, with legendary status, and it's still pretty quick (especially the E60).

 

[jaymanek]

I have to agree with Stats, they are not supercars, thats just plain silly... Ferrari's, lambo's, SLR's are supercars...
The 500 is a fantastic saloon but it aint no murcielago..

but your not the first to call them that so you can be forgiven

 

[talbir]

Without the Porsche link it would just be another 5 litre Merc .

Err, not quite.

The 500e has the following specific features that NO other Mecedes of the last 25 years has :

- the redesign of major suspension and chassis componentry from the w124 300e it is based on - it's not simply a w124 with an m119 engine, there are 3000 different parts to a stock w124 and essentially a redesign of a production car. Compare this with the w201 : take a w210 e320 and the e55....there is ZERO redesign of chassis and suspension between the two, just bolt on AMG compnentry. This is a clear example of how the 500e is a very special production, where designers went back to the drawing board and it wasn't just to accomodate the m119, it was to make this car the complete package

- each car took 18 days to put together, essentially hand built by Porsche, travelling back and forth between Weissach and Stuttgart for sign off at each stage....it's a coachbuilt Mercedes, EVERY other Mercedes has a man hours time of approx 30-40 hours, the 500e is 5x that timeframe


As for supercar it's a matter of definition. Q-car is probably more appropriate, but a normally aspirated 4 door family saloon that in actual road tests clocked the 0-100kmh in 5.9 seconds and travelled to 178mph with the delimiter, is formidable opposition. 15 years on it can still outclass many current production MBs w.r.t. performance. With respect to build quality, engineering and reliability it's better than ANY MB that followed.

As for kudos and classic car status, it's first in line, quite a few notches above cars such as the w126 560SEC and 190e 2.3-16's.


talbir

 

[stats007]

Err, not quite.

Err yes I'm afraid. The only reason it was re-engineered is because Mercedes didn't have the time to develop it and it went to Porsche. Remove the Porsche link and you'd have had a production E500 like you see today.

I agree they're great cars - I considered buying one - but they're no quicker than an R129 SL500 of the same era. The handbuilt E34 3.8 M5 was a better car at the time and the Lotus Carlton faster than both.

 

[talbir]

A family saloon with a large engine just can't qualify - where's the sense of occasion, exotic design and wow factor that stops people in the street?

Below are some pics of my black 040 500e.....I can tell you from experience, people walking along the street STOP and LOOK....i've been in petrol stations side by side with CL 65's and the car getting the attention was this black 500E....gotta love it when that happens !

 

[stats007]

That's because it looks like a drug dealers car .

 

[talbir]

Err yes I'm afraid. The only reason it was re-engineered is because Mercedes didn't have the time to develop it and it went to Porsche. Remove the Porsche link and you'd have had a production E500 like you see today.

I agree they're great cars - I considered buying one - but they're no quicker than an R129 SL500 of the same era. The handbuilt E34 3.8 M5 was a better car at the time and the Lotus Carlton faster than both.

Incorrect on both fronts.

Mercedes redesigned this car to cater for the market that wanted a fast mid-sized saloon. The entire development and redesign was done jointly between Mercedes and Porsche. Just because Porsche was commissioned to put the car together doesn't mean it was redesigned for that reason as well - the redesign was fundamental to achieving MB's objective of producing the complete package. Nothing to do with Porsche - they were simply the chosen party to assist in this develpment. No lack of time either since half of those 18 days per car were spent at MB factory checking and painting.

I suggest you pull out the road test figures for the 0-100kmh times and see the 0.75 second difference. Here are the reasons that explain why the SL 500 is SLOWER than the 500e :

- M119 engine power : the m119 in the sl's is NOT exactly the same as the e500. The e500 has revised intake valves and the official torque figures are as follows : SL and S 500 : 332 lb ft torque. E500 :354 lb ft torque. BHP figures are identical. When it comes to power, torque is what counts.

- Rear differential : SL 500 has higher gearing at 2.24 and 2.65 ratios. The 500e has a rear diff of 2.82....that gives a 0.3 to 0.5 second advantage in the 0-100kmh run

- Weight : dependant on options fitted but the SL is heavier car, weighing in on average 100kg more than the 500e

On paper and in road test NEITHER the SL500 or SL600 could match the 500E.


talbir

 

[talbir]

That's because it looks like a drug dealers car .

It's a stock 500E with the exception of color coded AMG Aero I's and color coded lower cladding.

But i am a drug dealer ! Exotic cars and supercars are the drug to have ! :bannana:

 

[talbir]

Bill,

on the History page, you mention the price as £50k+.

Just for info, I have the original invoice with my UK silver 500e, which was sold through Greenoaks of Maidenhead. It as a cost of £62,500 in March 1993.

No mega unique options on the car like trip computer or webasto pre-heater, but does have the rare climate control.

cheers
talbir

 

[stats007]

Incorrect on both fronts.

On paper and in road test NEITHER the SL500 or SL600 could match the 500E.

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

Printed quarter-mile times for the 500E are almost identical to an R129 SL500 at around 14.5s. The smaller frontal area of the R129 will mean it's likely to pull away at higher speeds - not that straight-line speed is too important.

The V12 is about 2s quicker:

Around a track I have no doubt that the 500E is a better car.

The MBOC recently ran a very in-depth story on the collaboration on MB & Porsche which includes the 500E and the reasons why Porsche built it. It's a very interesting article, Jay should be able to get you a copy.

 

[talbir]

Agree to disagree ? technical stats speak for themselves. If there is any aerodynamic advantage it is not going to outweigh the mechanical advantages of the 500E, which are 23 lb ft more torque, shorter diff ratio and lower weight.

I haven't seen roadtests or printed stats which show the sl500 anywhere near the 500e timings, not even the sl600 can match the 500e to the 62mph sprint. It's not even a point for discussion.

I know all about reasons why Porsche were involved, the discussion revolved around the 500e being another V8 merc....that's almost like claiming the Hammer is another V8 merc. Both cars have unique modifications that stand them apart from any other MB.

If you want to learn about the 500e and it's pedigree, MBOC is not the place to fish....500ecstasy.com is the place to learn all about this special piece. Hundreds of genuine owners there who have very superior technical knowledge, registers, and real life experiences of these cars.


talbir

 

[stats007]

Agree to disagree ? technical stats speak for themselves. If there is any aerodynamic advantage it is not going to outweigh the mechanical advantages of the 500E, which are 23 lb ft more torque, shorter diff ratio and lower weight.

They do indeed - that torque increase is negligable when you're trying to overcome air resistance at speeds over 100mph.

I haven't seen roadtests or printed stats which show the sl500 anywhere near the 500e timings, not even the sl600 can match the 500e to the 62mph sprint. It's not even a point for discussion.

0-60mph times are for all intents and purposes pointless. In-gear acceleration and 0-100mph times give a far clearer indication of true performance. This is where the V12 has a clear and proven advantage.

For stats try:

Fast Saloons
Drag Times
Car Folio

 

[talbir]

0-60 or 0-100mph doesn't matter....a car that has more torque, shorter diff and less weight will sprint quicker to the 60 or 100 mark.

The only place a shorter diff falls behind is top speed.

Have you experienced the difference between a 2.24 and 2.82 diff ?


talbir