E63 deposit paid

350cls

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The irony is that you're pushing on an open door - I haven't read anyone suggest that the M156/9 is anything other than an incredible engine, especially the sound which is what you major on most in your comments.

It's difficult to even suggest that it's not iconic engine - it was the engine which transformed AMG as a brand, and it led to the M159 which is still used in GT3 racing to great success - not too bad for an engine which was introduced in a road car 14 years ago.

It's your vehemence and persistence in suggesting that "everyone" is unfairly criticising the engine that bemuses me and others. You must read something into comments that few others can see.

Vive la difference.

It is a masterpiece, I'm glad you concur.
 

jayboy222

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Preferred it so much that you want rid of it!

To get the M156, ok good man I see you have come to your senses and all that 😉

No, selling as I don't use it.

I think it's pretty obvious you have serious issues, which is a shame for you and other members as you spoil pretty much every thread I see you post in.

Serious question, is it possible to ignore members? Never had to do it on any other forum I've been on but such is life.
 

AMGeed

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A pity the OP's thread has been ruined by puerile comments from the usual suspect.
I didn't help by responding to a genuine post from someone looking for a Biturbo, then it went t**s up.
For my part, I apologise Hakon.
It could do with a mod cleaning up the trash talk and returning the thread back to you and your comments.
 

350cls

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No, selling as I don't use it.

I think it's pretty obvious you have serious issues, which is a shame for you and other members as you spoil pretty much every thread I see you post in.

Serious question, is it possible to ignore members? Never had to do it on any other forum I've been on but such is life.


Wow you do bite really hard don't you 🤕
 

350cls

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A pity the OP's thread has been ruined by puerile comments from the usual suspect.
I didn't help by responding to a genuine post from someone looking for a Biturbo, then it went t**s up.
For my part, I apologise Hakon.
It could do with a mod cleaning up the trash talk and returning the thread back to you and your comments.


As with you, you can give it but can't take it. You bite harder than the rest. But it's allowed with you!!!

Agreed, I do also apologize to the OP. I'm defending my opinion/corner. I'm done in this thread.
 
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Hakon

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Drivers side cam cover removed and in the process of removing the sealant, I guess liquid sealant as opposed to a rubber gasket in a machined groove was a cheaper option. Most of the sealant remained on the engine side as opposed to the removable solenoid cover, not the easiest stuff to remove even with the gasket softener..... just glad I'm the one removing it as I know nothing will fall in.
DSC_0296 (1).jpg

Dealer strikes again !
1st visit to MB Brooklands I was told that two O-rings need changing in order to stem the coolant leak from one of the turbo cooling hoses to the cost of 3k
2nd visit to MB Brooklands, now the whole pipe needs replacing as the rings are no longer available and the part must be bought outright.
O-rings sourced at the outrageous price of £3.80 each.

Seemingly most M157 / M278 turbo hose failures are a result of the plastic becoming brittle and snapping, I have had a good pull and none have broken. I've gone for a complete set of turbo cooling hoses and am undecided if I'll do them all or just swap over the O-rings on the failed item where it enter the water pump cover.

Oil level sensor on the sump has a faint weep, the gasket has arrived and will be replaced when the oil gets changed.

DSC_0297 (1).jpg
New cover bolts and stuff.

The charge pipes were clear of oil as was the intercooler but the cretins at MB Gatwick used some sort of goo to facilitate back on the charge pipes to the turbos and intercooler when they pretended to repair this same oil leak last year. The goo, not the easiest to remove and clearly a bit much was applied...... almost made it's way into the turbo inlet.
 
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Hakon

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Arrivals,
as part of the continuing process of the dealership not wanting to know (Brooklands again) they informed that the leak of oil that is visible down the front of the engine was in fact originating from the breather / oil separator on the passenger side.

On very close inspection, it may well have a little oil moisture at the edges but not the waterfall from the cam cover, so I got one.
This is a car still under the 'approved warranty'.
_20201121_103007 (1).jpg
 
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st13phil

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I guess liquid sealant as opposed to a rubber gasket in a machined groove was a cheaper option
It is indeed cheaper, and - despite what some think - generally more reliable, which is why it's common engineering practice.

Most problems occur when someone dismantles an assembly that has been in service and on re-assembly either fails to clean the mating surfaces properly, fails to use the correct sealant, or applies the sealant in a non-uniform fashion.
 

Steve84N

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Sealant is still a service item unfortunately. The M156 has the oil pan seal, then another seal above that which needs the subframe to be dropped and a seal at the base of the block which is an engine out job.

There are now quite a few C63 cars where those upper seals are failing and it's an expensive repair due to the labour. I can't help but think a gasket would have taken it to 100k miles/10 years rather than just over half that where failures are occurring.
 
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Hakon

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Drivers side cam cover now refit, sealed and torqued.
Passenger side cannot be removed without prior removal of the oil filter housing.

DSC_0325 (1).jpg

The passenger side cam cover oil leak was worse than expected and certainly not originating from the passenger side breather as diagnosed by MB Brooklands......£350 to change a non fault part. The dealer would have striked again.

DSC_0324 (1).jpg


Getting the turbo cooling houses out of the passenger side turbo was a pain as they were a bit stuck.
Going to replace all the plastic turbo cooling hoses regardless. The o-rings seem prone to compression set and there were varying amounts of cooling weep - leak from all the o-rings that are mounted on plastic components, not from the ones mounted on the metal fittings however.
They also seem to use way too much sealant when these engines are put together, 90%+ squeezes out and potentially can fall / break off into the oily bits.
Coolant pressure tester and new bits en route from MB Edinburgh who are very quick to respond and have been excellent.
 
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Hakon

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Apologies if I’ve missed it but are you now carrying out this work yourself?

Yes I am.

I had enough of driving to and from dealerships whist they lied, played their games and generally wasted my time.

I think I spent 10 hours going to and from MB Gatwick (recommended to return to selling dealership by MBUK (who only wasted time in email correspondences) and MB Brooklands whilst they couldn't find any leaks or any items that are covered by the approved warranty. MB Gatwick are just useless but Brooklands were particularly good at finding brakes, breathers etc that didn't / don't need attention.

It's pretty straight forward but with lots of stuff to remove, WIS isn't great but it helps for torque spec and part numbers. Parts are not as expensive as I was expecting and are seemingly readily available.

Having run a E39 M5 for ten years, preventative maintenance is key to having these things in tip top condition. The alternator on the M157 would have got covered in oil if the drivers side leaked much more.....expensive problems.

I can only recommend to get some mirrors and a bright light and have a look for these potential issues
 

SPX

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Yes I am.

I had enough of driving to and from dealerships whist they lied, played their games and generally wasted my time.

I think I spent 10 hours going to and from MB Gatwick (recommended to return to selling dealership by MBUK (who only wasted time in email correspondences) and MB Brooklands whilst they couldn't find any leaks or any items that are covered by the approved warranty. MB Gatwick are just useless but Brooklands were particularly good at finding brakes, breathers etc that didn't / don't need attention.

It's pretty straight forward but with lots of stuff to remove, WIS isn't great but it helps for torque spec and part numbers. Parts are not as expensive as I was expecting and are seemingly readily available.

Having run a E39 M5 for ten years, preventative maintenance is key to having these things in tip top condition. The alternator on the M157 would have got covered in oil if the drivers side leaked much more.....expensive problems.

I can only recommend to get some mirrors and a bright light and have a look for these potential issues
With the shit you’ve had to put up with, I don’t blame you.
 

glojo

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Wow
Hi Hakon
Have you tried, or thought about having an independent person write and I do mean write and do include pictures and send this correspondence, to the senior management at the dealership who have so clearly let you down and maybe Cc it to Mercedes-Benz UK?

I read with great interest how you have discovered that is the norm for using a liquid sealant as opposed to a proper gasket. I accept it is standard practice to use this sealant but if this gunge is oozing into the inner workings of the engine, it must surely run the risk of blocking oil flow and if this happens, is it probable that the cause might go undetected.

The AMG engine is THE engine regarding a performance powered Mercedes vehicle and your experience does your dealerships no credit and after reading your very informative posts, should Mercedes at the very least, review how this liquid sealant is applied and possibly rethink the use of this application vs a proper gasket made from a premium product?

Top marks to you sir
 
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Hakon

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Have you tried, or thought about having an independent person write and I do mean write and do include pictures and send this correspondence, to the senior management at the dealership who have so clearly let you down and maybe Cc it to Mercedes-Benz UK?

No, I can't really be ****d having wasted enough time on this already. My endless correspondences with MBUK eventually drew a blank with them refusing any good will at all other than return to selling dealer. (MB Gatwick) I drove there and dropped off the car for 24 hrs and they couldn't find a thing. On collection they recommended the car being booked in again for them to have another look !!!! A three hour round trip.

I read with great interest how you have discovered that is the norm for using a liquid sealant as opposed to a proper gasket. I accept it is standard practice to use this sealant but if this gunge is oozing into the inner workings of the engine, it must surely run the risk of blocking oil flow and if this happens, is it probable that the cause might go undetected.

The goo I refer to is the lubricant that MB Gatwick used to re-assemble the charge pipes when they didn't fix the oil leak last year after collection of the car. There is no mention of this in WIS and they used too much.

With regards to the black Loctite sealant that is used on construction and recommended for re-sealing cam covers for example... they appear to use much of this when the engine is put together. A quick look at any M157 will reveal extruded black sealant at all the mating surfaces where used. The actual sealing film required to seal is so thin that it is almost translucent at the required areas. The extruded excess bits can easily drop / fall off when disturbed. The biggest pain is removal of the old sealant as the tiniest bit falling into the timing case areas can be catastrophic, I guess.

I'm by no means an MB / AMG aficionado with no real brand interest but I do like big fast cars. As you say, I did expect better quality in their premium product but if past experiences is anything to go by, all these things need mega maintenance.
 

oldguy57

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Blimey it's a good job you have the diagnostic and maintenance skills that you have - clearly much better than MB themselves! Dread to think what the average owner with no such skills would have had to go through in terms of time and money whilst MB ****d about with the car. Abysmal that so called experts are in fact no such thing.
 

glojo

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Hi again Hakon
Regarding Mercedes-Benz UK, my multiple experiences with them are that they are worse than useless.

My experience with senior management with our very large dealership is completely different. They have always been more than helpful.

Reading your excellent posts tends to indicate there might be a shortage of suitably qualified technicians incapable of carrying out the diagnostic work you have so expertly highlighted? Do our dealerships need to have more technicians capable of carrying out this work or is it the technicians are capable, but for a multitude of reasons they are not doing it?

If you had not done this investigative work, would the main dealer have fixed the issue or would you simply be handing pound notes over ad-infinitum

Is the hourly rate for the main dealer so high that it is now 'cheaper' to throw away a part rather than repair it?

I ask this last question from personal experience regarding a defective wing-mirror but your repair is in a different league but the principal is there all the same.
 
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Hakon

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Reading your excellent posts tends to indicate there might be a shortage of suitably qualified technicians incapable of carrying out the diagnostic work you have so expertly highlighted? Do our dealerships need to have more technicians capable of carrying out this work or is it the technicians are capable, but for a multitude of reasons they are not doing it?

I'm sure the technicians are suitably trained but my feeling is it's more to do with the lack of honoring the approved used warranty, as a policy. But I don't know. Interestingly oil leaks from the black gasket material are covered but from the rubber / elastomer gaskets are not.

If you had not done this investigative work, would the main dealer have fixed the issue or would you simply be handing pound notes over ad-infinitum

No, two dealers have looked at the car, in one case twice and couldn't find the leaks. As mentioned, Brooklands blamed the leak on another part and were more then happy to replace that. The main dealers couldn't / wouldn't as they refused to acknowledge the oil leak in the first place. A small mirror, a torch and if available an inspection ramp and these leaks cant possibly be missed

Interestingly when it went in for the coolant loss diagnosis, they found the source of the leak straight away. Was it because this is a billable repair rather than a warranty item, who knows but probably.

I was told they had to use a mirror and a torch to find the coolant leak. Seemingly they know how to use a mirror and a torch but missed the river of black running down the front of the engine 20cm away from the coolant leak.
It is that simple.
 
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Dammit

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I’m hoping to collect a 2016 E63 estate next week and this thread makes for sobering reading.
 

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