Eco start: is it bad for the turbo or engine in the c43 AMG 2016?

[Deleted member 126251]

We have been here before.

I said it then and I will say it now. Starting and stopping any moving machinery multiple times will do it no good in the long run.

Especially if in the very first place it was never designed to be constantly stopped and re started.

The better quality of modern engines, components, lubricants & electronics have all been designed to cope with stop start. e.g. I know that they have systems to keep oil in circulation etc - it is not like the older cars where the oil all drained to the sump when the engine stopped or the bearings seized in the turbos because they had not been allowed to cool down. Taxis are aways switching on and off & have been doing it forever.

I cannot envision a company selling cars that they know will destroy themselves.

In The Netherlands - I lived there for 5 years (and presumably other EU countries) it has been law for years that you must turn your engine off while waiting at traffic lights or stuck in traffic. I’ve not seen any reports coming out of the Netherlands about problems with cars because of this.

 

[190]

I've driven stop/start cars that worked reasonably well but they were not perfect. For me the experience depends on how eager they are to stop. I've observed cars in slow moving traffic that stop and start again every few seconds which is plain unnecessary and can only be harmful. There should be a minimum stationary time of at least 5 seconds before the engine stops so that they only work when they will save some tangible amount of fuel such as at traffic lights. Then I wouldn't wish to disable the feature. Ideally what I would want is something analogous to infinitely variable wiper speed i.e. a little knob that adjusts the stationary time before the engine stops. It'll never happen though because the stop start facility is not designed for ease of driving or consideration for mechanical aspects, it's only designed to achieve the lowest possible fuel consumption and emissions on a test cycle.

 

[Bayleaf]

I always turn it off on my SL350 petrol.

 

[sgregory124]

I've driven stop/start cars that worked reasonably well but they were not perfect. For me the experience depends on how eager they are to stop. I've observed cars in slow moving traffic that stop and start again every few seconds which is plain unnecessary and can only be harmful. There should be a minimum stationary time of at least 5 seconds before the engine stops so that they only work when they will save some tangible amount of fuel such as at traffic lights. Then I wouldn't wish to disable the feature. Ideally what I would want is something analogous to infinitely variable wiper speed i.e. a little knob that adjusts the stationary time before the engine stops. It'll never happen though because the stop start facility is not designed for ease of driving or consideration for mechanical aspects, it's only designed to achieve the lowest possible fuel consumption and emissions on a test cycle.

Someone calculated (I read somewhere) that provided the engine is off for a minimum of 8 seconds, its saving an appreciable amount of fuel.

 

[ToeKnee]

I'm with Rory, my stop start is off by default due to my top module.

 

[Benzowner]

I have driven a number of cars with stop/start, only autos though and unless you do left foot braking at junctions etc, by the time my right foot has left the brake pedal and moved to the go pedal the engines on all of them have started and ready to roll. Even in my Qashqai i have saved the planet a few kgs of CO2 and probably a few gallons as well.

 

[Germgh0st]

I'm also of the opinion that a manufacturer would not deliberately sell a car that would destroy itself when used normally. Mine often isn't on because I don't use the car much and so the battery generally isn't fully charged. However when it is working I don't turn it off. As far as it delaying exit at a busy junction goes, you can either hold the car lightly on the brakes which stops it from cutting in, or gently tap the accelerator a second or so before you want to go and that makes the engine cut in without moving the car.

My last two Focus ST's had start/stop as well and it didn't cause any issues.

 

[Larkone]

the end of your sentence seems to have been truncated - FTFY

I believe the engineers at BMW, MB, VAG etc etc know more than we do about designing engines to last the warranty period

 

[Deleted member 126251]

the end of your sentence seems to have been truncated - FTFY

My wife’s car (with stop start) is going on 8 years old and had never had an issue........

 

[DrNick]

My wife’s car (with stop start) is going on 8 years old and had never had an issue........

As an engineer who's had experience of working on the fundamentals of lubrication, I've got no worries about the stop start affecting the life of components due to lubrication. Having spoken to other engineers working on electric motor projects for Toyota (specifically designing stop start compatible starters), I also have no worries about stop start reducing the life of these items. I appreciate that that flies in the face of common internet sense.
I have no intention to argue the point or change peoples views, but to me its a non-issue. It is however, annoying mostly in its operation, but its useful in certain situations and used properly will save fuel and improve air quality in urban areas that regularly have queues of cars outside their houses and schools (but not as much as fully electric). Its really just a consequence of trying to eek out the maximum commercial life for the Victorian ICE in the face of the growing evidence that its bad for the world. No-one now can possibly still think that having millions of ICE wandering about the place is a good idea, but we are all pragmatic enough to realise that we can't get rid of them overnight

 

[John]

I have discovered on mine that it is possible to press the brake just a little bit, enough to hold the car but not enough to trigger the stop-start. Its a bit of a game. Use the brakes to slow down as normal but reduce the pressure on the brake as you get slow, so that when you actually stop, the brake is only pushed a bit. Stop-start defeated! (Feel the car -- be the car!)

Yes, I discovered this a few years ago.

I've actually found you can press it quite hard and still not turn the engine off.

Your foot calibrates to that eventually and I remember it.

Although I don't mind SS in the first place, I use the above trick for when a quick getaway is required from a junction etc.

 

[markjay]

The better quality of modern engines, components, lubricants & electronics have all been designed to cope with stop start. e.g. I know that they have systems to keep oil in circulation etc - it is not like the older cars where the oil all drained to the sump when the engine stopped or the bearings seized in the turbos because they had not been allowed to cool down. Taxis are aways switching on and off & have been doing it forever.

I cannot envision a company selling cars that they know will destroy themselves.

In The Netherlands - I lived there for 5 years (and presumably other EU countries) it has been law for years that you must turn your engine off while waiting at traffic lights or stuck in traffic. I’ve not seen any reports coming out of the Netherlands about problems with cars because of this.

1. Stop/Start engines are designed to cope with the additional stress on the affected systems (admittedly all too often with varying degrees of success...)


2. But the affected systems will still be subject to less wear if Stop/Start wasn't used


3. The question is, if point no. 1 covers the current owner for as long as they own the vehicle... does it matter if you double or triple the service life of certain components?

4. If your answer to point no. 3 is No, then you are a very logical person, but have zero mechanical sympathy

 

[clk320x]

Get an EV

 

[markjay]

Get an EV

Yup

 

[clk320x]

Yup

Absolutely loving mine

 

[Deleted member 126251]

1. Stop/Start engines are designed to cope with the additional stress on the affected systems (admittedly all too often with varying degrees of success...)


2. But the affected systems will still be subject to less wear if Stop/Start wasn't used


3. The question is, if point no. 1 covers the current owner for as long as they own the vehicle... does it matter if you double or triple the service life of certain components?

4. If your answer to point no. 3 is No, then you are a very logical person, but have zero mechanical sympathy

Without resorting to silly gifs.....

Point 1 - you appear to agree with me and then contradict yourself. What is your empirical experience of the failure rate in or related to "stop start systems" ?

You say ”admittedly all too often with varying degrees of success" - please provide data to back this statement.

Point 2 - OBVIOUSLY there would be less wear (use it less, it wears less) but the components are designed to be fit for purpose and handle the stresses of a stop/start system. Do you use your brakes or steering wheel less to save wear and tear on them even-though, they are designed to do the job they do?

Point 3 - How long is “as long as you own the vehicle”?
3a) What is the (design) service life of the components?
3b) Is a car supposed to last forever? I know there is a sector that wait to buy a (pre owned) (bargain that others had paid the depreciation on) car with 10s of 1000s of miles on it and then expect it to last them for further 10s of 1000s of miles because it is a MB.
3c) Realistically, what is a fair (trouble free) milage to expect from a car that is regularly serviced & not abused?
3d) What is the design life of a modern MB - in miles?

Unless you can provide proper answers to the above, you cannot definitively state that a stop /start system is going to cause (premature or ongoing) problems.

Point 4 - Having spent my career in the engineering industry, maintained & repaired, including engine rebuilds - (who remembers reseating valves with grinding paste (coarse & fine) using a stick with a suction cup on the end) my own cars (when I was younger) & have a keen interest in how anything works, I’d say I have more so called “mechanical sympathy” than you expect.

People throw out statements like “the stop/start system will definitely cause more wear and tear” naively thinking that it is no different to their 1965 Ford Escort set up.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

As an engineer who's had experience of working on the fundamentals of lubrication, I've got no worries about the stop start affecting the life of components due to lubrication. Having spoken to other engineers working on electric motor projects for Toyota (specifically designing stop start compatible starters), I also have no worries about stop start reducing the life of these items. I appreciate that that flies in the face of common internet sense.
I have no intention to argue the point or change peoples views, but to me its a non-issue. It is however, annoying mostly in its operation, but its useful in certain situations and used properly will save fuel and improve air quality in urban areas that regularly have queues of cars outside their houses and schools (but not as much as fully electric). Its really just a consequence of trying to eek out the maximum commercial life for the Victorian ICE in the face of the growing evidence that its bad for the world. No-one now can possibly still think that having millions of ICE wandering about the place is a good idea, but we are all pragmatic enough to realise that we can't get rid of them overnight

Ahhhh the sound of “common sense” so rare these days.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

I always turn it off on my SL350 petrol.

You need a SmartTop....

 

[Skd884]

I have been told that the Eco/auto stop/start is it bad for the turbo in the c43 AMG 2016. Does anybody have an informed opinion on that? I have been advised to turn it off, which I have to do every time I start the car.

No one here has the answer, ask MB.

 

[DrNick]

Get an EV

Brevity and elegance. Bang on!
Or at least get something that isn't petrol or diesel. Obviously won't happen overnight for various reasons but, like booster jabs, when available, seize it with both hands. Probably a bad metaphor - grabbing needles is unadvised, but you get the idea!