Electric cars - where is the current position ?

Bellow

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4. The advantage to the CEGB of all these EV's charging up over is that they will have access to a massive amount of stored energy to deal with peaks. They are VERY enthusiastic about this as they will no longer need to have 'peaker' coal fired generation plants on standby, which is costly and very inefficient.

Is this absolutely going to happen?
I've been banging on for years that this is the battery capacity that the national grid has craved but it has to be thought out and informing the public using EVs is vital. What if you hooked up an EV - the battery of which was half depleted - to the grid with the intention of topping the charge up to full for an intended journey and have just enough time for the charging. Returning to the car to find its battery in a worse state of charge than when connecting because the grid saw fit to use your battery to boil kettles and power TVs for an episode of Eastenders isn't going to work. By what method do you inform the grid of your energy requirements wrt to timeframe?
 
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Tonygw

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Tell the people who are taking delivery of their Model 3's month by month.

Fires in Tesla - this is just hilarious. Yes there have been several fires with Tesla's and one or two are crashed; however during the same period of time there are, around the world hundreds of thousands of ICE that have burst into flames.

I get that you don't want to think about a radical change in the way we transport ourselves, but seriously your comments are just completely ill-informed.


Ah but I would love to embrace the technology but it is flawed in every way which is a real shame. So please enlighten me as to my "ill informed" information...since I am from the inustry...
I wasnt refering to tesla I was refering to lithium batteries in general. ICE vehicles catch fire all the time but petrol can be extingushed with the correct methods and agents. Lithium cannot and burns at higher temps and with more vigor..

ICE are ok but at the moment no viable alternatives are suitable for main stream transport in the way an ICE can offer.
Shame, I think Hydrogen would work.
 
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thebiglad

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Is this absolutely going to happen?
I've been banging on for years that this is the battery capacity that the national grid has craved but it has to be thought out and informing the public using EVs is vital. What if you hooked up an EV - the battery of which was half depleted - to the grid with the intention of topping the charge up to full for an intended journey and have just enough time for the charging. Returning to the car to find its battery in a worse state of charge than when connecting because the grid saw fit to use your battery to boil kettles and power TVs for an episode of Eastenders isn't going to work. By what method do you inform the grid of your energy requirements wrt to timeframe?
Hi Bellow, this is likely to happen as the number of EV's increases, so certainly not tomorrow ! However within 5 yrs I would expect the National Grid to be operating their 'balancing' exercise using the car batteries whose owners have signed up to be part of the plan. I would also expect the following:
1. Cheaper energy for those who sign up to be part of the NG resilience - otherwise no-one would !!!

2. Smart meters across the board will be part of the management of supply and demand. There are currently available devices would govern where energy comes from and go to. For example if an individual has roof panels this 'intelligent box can be set up by the owner to initially steer the energy produced from the panels to the car battery, house battery, house usage or NG or a combination of all of the above.

3. When you have for example 1 million car batteries connected the NG will only need to take a tiny amount from each one and not all at the same time. So if you arrive home with a depleted battery (eg 40% left) The grid will take 1kw/hr, leaving the rest of the night rate to fully recharge your cars' battery. Using a 'Wallbox' todays EV's with 60KW/hr batteries will charge from 10% to 80% in 2.5 hrs on average, at your house.
 

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Lithium batteries are also hardly a "green" solution either and how on earth do you recycle them at the end of their life?
.

There seems to be a bit of pushback using exactly that argument from the suppliers to the automotive industry, eg, turbocharger,etc, manufacturers who need ICE to maintain their businesses. Meanwhile, the car manufacturers are headlong toward EV (diesel being reserved for quite large cars) without any thought to suitability to the end user customer. Stung by 'dieselgate' they are doing as instructed and seem least inclined to raise any issues regarding environmental aspects associated with EVs, their battery manufacture or disposal.
 

thebiglad

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When car batteries have come to the end of their 'effective' life (down to perhaps 75% of their new capacity) and this looks likely to be after 15 yrs or more they still have ample utility in house storage batteries, energy network storage, etc. When the ultimate end of life for a battery comes, good be as long as 30 yrs, then they will be stripped and the contents re-used.

One thing no-one is talking about though, is how much does an EV cost to run?

An average EV today and for the near future is roughly 60 kw/hr, so how much does it cost to recharge by comparison to a similar sized ICE car? Lots of variables of course : energy tarifs, mpg of the ICE car, cost of fuel etc etc. I've done the calculations and my results show, on average that to cover the same distance the EV is 70% cheaper than the ICE car.

How much does an ICE cost to maintain ? Regular servicing, repairs, tyres, brakes etc etc. What about an EV? Well it has only 3 moving parts in it's drivetrain by comparison to the thousands in an ICE car. EV's has a configurable system which recoups energy when you take your foot of the accelerator, so you almost never need to use your brakes. Brake pads and discs just don't wear out with an EV, tyres are similar. No oil changes, no filter changes.

There's so much talk about why they won't work (but they actually do, if you take the time to look) but very few have looked into the single major advantage of EV's - and it's not saving the world - it's the overall running costs.

Peace out................................
 

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When car batteries have come to the end of their 'effective' life (down to perhaps 75% of their new capacity) and this looks likely to be after 15 yrs or more they still have ample utility in house storage batteries, energy network storage, etc. When the ultimate end of life for a battery comes, good be as long as 30 yrs, then they will be stripped and the contents re-used.

One thing no-one is talking about though, is how much does an EV cost to run?

An average EV today and for the near future is roughly 60 kw/hr, so how much does it cost to recharge by comparison to a similar sized ICE car? Lots of variables of course : energy tarifs, mpg of the ICE car, cost of fuel etc etc. I've done the calculations and my results show, on average that to cover the same distance the EV is 70% cheaper than the ICE car.

How much does an ICE cost to maintain ? Regular servicing, repairs, tyres, brakes etc etc. What about an EV? Well it has only 3 moving parts in it's drivetrain by comparison to the thousands in an ICE car. EV's has a configurable system which recoups energy when you take your foot of the accelerator, so you almost never need to use your brakes. Brake pads and discs just don't wear out with an EV, tyres are similar. No oil changes, no filter changes.

There's so much talk about why they won't work (but they actually do, if you take the time to look) but very few have looked into the single major advantage of EV's - and it's not saving the world - it's the overall running costs.

Peace out................................

"Doing your calculations" is all well and good, but have you actually owned one to see if they match up in practice?
 

grober

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That's the thing with new technologies they often end up being employed in ways that are not immediately apparent when first introduced . The first Apple Computers were regarded as the province of tech geeks and scientists-- then someone wrote a spreadsheet program and suddenly the business world couldn't get enough of them. Perhaps its a mistake to think we will continue to interact with the electric car as we have with the IC car. A foreseable problem for governments as the popularity of EVs grows will be how to tax this new form of propulsive energy to replace existing revenues from IC vehicle/fuel taxation. We are still in the honeymoon period as far as that's concerned!
 
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Crazyfool

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I think the two most horrible interiors I’ve been in of late were said Tesla , and Chrysler 300 - acres of bland plastic, but they kind of come from the same place .

Have to say I’m not a fan of a lot of MB offerings which are also lacking in nice furnishings

Out of the three marques, Audi interiors are by far the best, but unfortunately I couldn’t cope with having a third unreliable Audi so my only other choice was MB. We love both our E’s.

I was toying with the E300 but I wasn’t sure about hybrids at the time so went for the E350. Must admit It’s my first and probably last diesel, I much prefer my wife’s E400.

Maybe when mine is up for replacement I will go for a hybrid....but not just yet.
 
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thebiglad

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To be honest I can't be ****d - you don't want to learn and I have a life.

So yes, you are all correct, EV's are just a stupid idea dreamed up by an imbecile.
 

John

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As much as I love a loud V8, EVs are the only way forward.

Technology is improving all the time and once the majority have battery storage in their homes and solar panels make commercial sense, which may well require government incentives (rather than cutting them back they seem to be perversely doing right now), it will pave the way for the demise of ICE which is a good thing certainly for private car transport.

What timescale this happens depends on many factors but EVs are definitely the future.

My commute is definitely within the typical 30 miles so I would consider an EV in the future and probably my other half's car will remain ICE until the range in EVs improves.
 

Eddy77

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I like the idea. But the basics seem to be so far off......

How do we generate the electricity to charge them? Fossil fuels or nuclear....

Current grid capacity is not there if we were to all switch over.

What about all the waste generated at end of life. Lithium etc. Pollution issues seem potentially huge.

How do you charge one when so many people don’t have driveways? I’ve heard all the theories of pads under the road and wireless charging. But you are talking billions to make this reality. The UK is broke. We can’t find the NHS....how are we going to fund the e-infrastructure in a matter of a few years??

Whose going to create the network of charging stations in the next few years?

I totally get that things have to change. But we don’t seem to be there with the basics yet.....and the government is committing us all to moving over already. All seems very ill-conceived.
 

gIzzE

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Until they stop using child labour to get the cobalt I won't even consider an EV.

To be fair they it is used in all lithium batteries, from phones to macbooks, but it has really made me stop and think how often I need to upgrade those too.

The car batteries are meant to have taken the mining to another level though and if you have the stomach for it do a bit of research, the price of being green is pretty ****ing horrible.
 

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When car batteries have come to the end of their 'effective' life (down to perhaps 75% of their new capacity) and this looks likely to be after 15 yrs or more they still have ample utility in house storage batteries, energy network storage, etc. When the ultimate end of life for a battery comes, good be as long as 30 yrs, then they will be stripped and the contents re-used.

One thing no-one is talking about though, is how much does an EV cost to run?

An average EV today and for the near future is roughly 60 kw/hr, so how much does it cost to recharge by comparison to a similar sized ICE car? Lots of variables of course : energy tarifs, mpg of the ICE car, cost of fuel etc etc. I've done the calculations and my results show, on average that to cover the same distance the EV is 70% cheaper than the ICE car.

How much does an ICE cost to maintain ? Regular servicing, repairs, tyres, brakes etc etc. What about an EV? Well it has only 3 moving parts in it's drivetrain by comparison to the thousands in an ICE car. EV's has a configurable system which recoups energy when you take your foot of the accelerator, so you almost never need to use your brakes. Brake pads and discs just don't wear out with an EV, tyres are similar. No oil changes, no filter changes.

There's so much talk about why they won't work (but they actually do, if you take the time to look) but very few have looked into the single major advantage of EV's - and it's not saving the world - it's the overall running costs.

Peace out................................
It depends on how you cost it .

While we all pay for the fuel in our ICE cars , unless we make our own Biodeisel or run on WVO , at least here in Scotland the cost of recharging an electric vehicle can be zero , unless you’re daft enough to plug it into your own electricity supply , since all public and workplace charge points are free at point of use .

And with most of our electricity now coming from renewables ( wind , hydro electric , wave power ) why shouldn’t it be so ?
 

Rorywquin

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One of my pals has a Tesla model S , and loves it . They gave him a cracking deal , taking his Jaag as a trade in , whopping discount on an ‘inventory’ model and got the 6 year interest free loan from Scottish Government to finance the balance .

Interior is a bit bland though .

He does a lot of business miles and still gets his 45p/mile , and charges it for nothing either in the office car park or in the public car park at Stewartfield Loch across the road from his house .

Is he a Scot?;):)
 

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I like the idea. But the basics seem to be so far off......

How do we generate the electricity to charge them? Fossil fuels or nuclear.....

Hereabouts , we have all but eliminated burning of fossil fuels - see chart 6 in the link below .

Although gas and nuclear still account for a proportion , we are already generating 70% of our needs from renewables , and , if you look at the trends over the last few years , I don't think it will be long before that reaches 100%

Renewables in Numbers - Scottish Renewables
 

Rorywquin

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Hereabouts , we have all but eliminated burning of fossil fuels - see chart 6 in the link below .

Although gas and nuclear still account for a proportion , we are already generating 70% of our needs from renewables , and , if you look at the trends over the last few years , I don't think it will be long before that reaches 100%

Renewables in Numbers - Scottish Renewables

The population of Scotland is 10% of that of England.....presumably, it is easier to make these changes with an infrastructure 1/10 of the size?
 

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How do you charge one when so many people don’t have driveways? I’ve heard all the theories of pads under the road and wireless charging. But you are talking billions to make this reality. The UK is broke. We can’t find the NHS....how are we going to fund the e-infrastructure in a matter of a few years??

Whose going to create the network of charging stations in the next few years?

.

On street charging bollards are one possibility , which are no harder to put in than street lighting ( and could perhaps share some of the same infrastructure ) . Workplace and public parking charge points are another distinct possibility ; most railway station car parks now have EV charge points , as do many workplaces - within the fire service there are increasing numbers of EV charge points at most of our sites , and these are becoming well used as the take up of EVs increases .

I would also expect to see commercial parking organisations , such as NCP start to provide EV facilities , if indeed they haven't already started to do so .
 

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