Eletronic Transmission Control

[W163ML500]

Hi all,
I have started working through a ML500 2002 model in silver this end.
Trying to bring it back to near showroom condition and slowly getting there.
Bought it last September.
I have done major repairs and servicing to date and thought I had got everything fixed under the bonnet when I went for a drive after replacing many parts.

Alternator -this was the first problem I had when i lost lights, at 18 years old I was fine with this. This was when I noticed the frayed throttle cable and also noticed it felt like there was a slight sticking point on the throttle pedal, hence I swapped them out.
Battery
washer bottle.
Throttle cable and pedal assembly, as old one was lose and cable was split and frayed under bonnet.
Removed and replaced both banks rocker cover gaskets, including the top small covers.
spark-plugs
leads
coil packs., everything original bosch, except the spark-plugs are Bosch double platinum instead of single.

I did the throttle cable first and after this no throttle, so thought okay, i've upset something, so worked on the other parts and finished.
I then bought an AUTEL maxiPRO MP808 to let me see if any faults or codes causing the throttle problem, and yes, one major problem.

P2001 N15/3 ETC-Electronic Transmission Control, ETC/EGS module is faulty.
Stored error and current error. I have included the readout from the scanner.

I do not have an expensive diagnostic scanner so am now stumped.
I have found the module, and not easy to find, and very hard to remove. (I have not removed it yet)

I have read you cannot simply remove this part and plug in a second hand one as they have to be a virgin unit and programmed to the vehicle vin number. I also read that the older ML M-Classes can have the modules swapped out, but hit and miss
If this is true, it means I have to go to the Mercedes dealership and wave good-bye to £1,000's of pounds to have this fixed as they will only fit and supply a new unit.

Or is there somewhere i could take my faulty unit to, to have them refurbish it if possible?
If it is calibrated and programmed to the vehicle, then refurbishing should at least turn it back to a virgin unit.

I also found this .PDF online, although it is left hand drive Mercedes model, so ETC module is NOT where this document says it is, as right hand drive, not left.

 

[Dodipops]

I’m fairly sure they’re coded. However a 2nd hand unit could be plugged in and if the fault code can be erased this would prove the ecu is the fault.

You could then have yours rebuilt from the likes of BBA reman or ECU testing

 

[W163ML500]

I’m fairly sure they’re coded. However a 2nd hand unit could be plugged in and if the fault code can be erased this would prove the ecu is the fault.

You could then have yours rebuilt from the likes of BBA reman or ECU testing

Thanks dodipops. Yes they are coded to the vehicle vin number.
A new/virgin one can be plugged straight in apparently, according to youtube videos anyway.
But this seems weird, yet the video is there showing it getting swapped over for a new one and not needing anything done to make it work.
I am going to see about getting second-hand ones at £25 each, against dealer part at £1,300 each+ coding it in and fitting at £150 per hour.

My scanner as you can see shows it threw an error previous to when I bought the Mercedes, and now again it has thrown an error.
I am new to all this module rubbish controlling our lifes, but have to get used to it and work it out somehow,
I honestly see me having to take it to the dealer to get out of this mess.

 

[Dodipops]

It would be worth opening the trans ecu for a look inside, especially for oil, it can capillary up from the transmission through the wiring and soak the ecu internals.

 

[W163ML500]

It would be worth opening the trans ecu for a look inside, especially for oil, it can capillary up from the transmission through the wiring and soak the ecu internals.

Thanks for this.
I still have not removed the unit, but will in the next few hours as i have got the sun shining this end, after floods and just over 5 inches of rain in three days up here.
I have tried to get in touch with BBA reman, but seems they are busy, so will keep trying.

 

[W163ML500]

Typical of life, as soon as I mention no contact, I get contact.

A Walter has phoned me from BBA Reman.
Very happy with his estimate of £180 max. if fixable, and he reckons it may be able to be dropped back in without needing to be re-programmed.
He will know more when he gets it opened up.

I will remove and open it myself first, when I find the thing.
I am going to poke around above the drivers side footwell, above the hand-brake foot pedal, as i cannot think of anywhere else it could be. The .pdf I got above shows a left hand drive W163, so not in same place.

 

[W163ML500]

I revived this thread folks to let you all know how I have got on with this problem of poor throttle.
After paying £183 to have my ETC module rebuilt, coming back to me with no faults and 100% fully functional, I was stumped as to why still no throttle.
My ML500 has now been at the MB dealership in Swansea, going into its second week, and will be with them for what will be another week yet.

They are to blame for my loss of throttle and poor throttle response, and are fixing it for me.
So what did they do to cause this to me?

They sold me a throttle cable, and pedal assembly, for what they said was my ML500.
Throttle cable was far too long, so i ordered another one, came in the post a few days later, fitted it and still too long, about 1-2 inched too long.
Phoned parts department and told to go away as I did not know what i was talking about, as in how can two separate cables be wrong?
(Old throttle cable was cut off and the end that attaches to the throttle position sensor was binned, so could never measure exact inner cable length).

I then bought a scanner, as you all saw in my post, and it showed a fault with a module, ETC.
This fault was because the poor throttle cable cannot give proper throttle across the range, so the module only said a fault, but as these modules are classed as dumb, it could not tell me the fault was due to a wrong length throttle cable.

I tried telling the MB dealership parts deparatment that i cannot remove all the slack out of the cable, they claimed i was an idiot, so i went looking for other faults that turns out, do not exist. They plugged in the Star system, and also found no faults what-so-ever, and then it came to light I had changed the throttle pedal assembly and cable as supplied by themselves, and since them lost most of my throttle.

The manager has since phoned me of this particular franchise and apologized about the treatment and resentment i got from the staff on the phone.
They record their phone calls, thank goodness, as he did not want to believe me that i was told to get lost, and a few other things said to me.

They are trying to fix the issue now, and realise the parts supplier they use has been supplying the wrong cables, which of course will be made under licence, but somehow a few of these ML US only models, as in the US market were all these ML's were originally built for, turns out there may be more than one throttle cable and pedal assembly used on certain models during manufacture, which of course, the MB dealerships here in the UK had no knowledge or idea about, and their database does not show this.

I also told the MB dealship in Swansea, you sold me what i class are fake parts.
MB stamp there parts for a reason, and you supplied me with loads of parts when I bought this ML and NOT one single part is stamped MB, only a sticker on the outer poly bags saying it is MB parts.

So, this is also being looked into by the branch manager, as in he does not know or understand howcome I have parts not authentic and made and stamped MB on them.
He thinks maybe that parts are made in Spain, where all his parts come from, under licence from MB, which would account for them not being officially stamped he told me.

So a long winded explanation of what is happening and what stage I am at right now.

 

[Petrol Pete]

I am glad you are finally getting somewhere with this , but are you sure that every single part on an MB is marked with an MB logo ? The first ML's up to about 2002 were built in Graz Austria then the rest were (famously) thrown together in Alabama USA until MB clamped down on quality issues.

Is your car one that falls in the changeover period ? Was it the last of a Austrian built cars ...or the first of a USA build ? The throttle cable on a LHD car will nearly always be a different length to that of a RHD car.

I don't know any of the answers it's just that I am curious about these things as I have had similar 'problem' with Mercedes Benz regarding my C55 AMG.

 

[W163ML500]

I am glad you are finally getting somewhere with this , but are you sure that every single part on an MB is marked with an MB logo ?

Every single part on my ML is logo marked Daimler benz, including even the radiator top hose.
The throttle cable was marked/logo MB that was removed and even the ABS plastic pedal assembly.

Austria were one of the right hand makers and Crysler/Daimler the US makers, of which all my parts are stamped daimler Benz. The right hand models in the US were made for the Australian market, and my one is also Daimler/Benz, so also assembled in the US and exported, probably same time the Austrlian ones were made.

To many variables to play a guessing game at this stage.
I am assuming the dealership should be able to get to the bottom of this for me.
I do not have or want any access to there databases, as this is down to the dealers themselves to sift through and fix/solve.

 

[W163ML500]

Thanks for the thumbs up Petrol Pete.
I am following in others footsteps on this vehicle, as lots of you have known them or had them in the past.
I am still learning on this one, which seems to be a rarer SUV for the UK. I found this out afterwards, but I am still happy with the hooligan 5.0L V8 petrol, automatic, with touch shift manual control, which wakes up quick and leaves most things in her wake. The 6L+ versions will be even more fun.

Even add on parts on this vehicle I have are stamped Mercedes.
Here is the old alternator I just swapped out, not just a logo, but also a part number from Mercedes.

MB dealers ranged from £325 -£825 when I phoned them at the time, just a few months back. (People actually think this is what alternators cost), I got this same 14V alternator direct from Bosch, here in the UK, for £75 delivered.

 

[Petrol Pete]

I had not really noticed all of the MB logos on my car . They are of course everywhere on the inside of plastic mouldings etc but I have noticed all of the AMG tags everywhere, even on the wire that goes to the foglamp has a little silver AMG tag with a part umber on it, the coil springs the same . And all over the place where just a P/N would do as no one is ever going to see them .

I suppose it beats buying an AMG badge off Ebay but it does seem like overkill to me.

 

[W163ML500]

Petrol Pete, yes an over-kill, but it might be something back then done as if you remember the world was shocked about aeroplanes and fake industry parts being used and sold as genuine in the US.
Maybe Germany saying look, we know our parts and suppliers, as we have vetted them before-hand.

 

[W163ML500]

Another update if anyone was still wondering on what has happened to my ML500 this end.
Mercedes of Swansea delership just phoned me to tell me the throttle cable will not be shipped until 8th July from Germany, as had to be made to order. another 4 days for delivery, so 12-14 July before I can get my mercedes ML500 back from the dealer.

I actually laughed on the phone, if i could have cried I would have.
From beginning to end, they will have my vehicle for close on 6 weeks, and this seems to be very wrong somehow.

They tried a few cables, but none would work, so had to go back to Mercedes in Germany and find out why no cable would fit my ML.
All I know is one has to be made specially for this vehicle.

Until then, anyone got any paint i can watch dry?

 

[Martyn_n]

It all seems very strange, only one part number for the 163 accelerator cable, A1633010623 and you can get a brand new genuine one (with logo) from ebay in a couple of days. As it is the inner cable that is "too long" are they sure that the sender unit is correctly fitted in the black plastic bracket and isn't too close to the cable outer? Also was the pedal assembly fitted correctly and is fully snug with the bulkhead? Have they checked all of the bulkhead grommets and cable adjustment components have been reinstalled?
I find it really really hard to believe that your car has had a bowden cable made with a unique inner cable length compared to the thousands of others where an off the shelf oem part would fit.

 

[W163ML500]

It all seems very strange, only one part number for the 163 accelerator cable, A1633010623 and you can get a brand new genuine one (with logo) from ebay in a couple of days. As it is the inner cable that is "too long" are they sure that the sender unit is correctly fitted in the black plastic bracket and isn't too close to the cable outer? Also was the pedal assembly fitted correctly and is fully snug with the bulkhead? Have they checked all of the bulkhead grommets and cable adjustment components have been reinstalled?
I find it really really hard to believe that your car has had a bowden cable made with a unique inner cable length compared to the thousands of others where an off the shelf oem part would fit.

You and me both I am afraid to say.
A1633010623 does not fit, and this is the problem they and me are having.

A dealership also knows to check and re-check things like seating of pedal etc, but I know myslef this is 100% correctly fitted and seated.
The throttle pedal assembly is idiot proof for fitting, is identical to the one removed, and will only fit one way and cannot be wrongly seated or fitted. I know what you are saying, but this is not a problem with why I have no throttle.

I have also noticed slight differences in the throttle position sensors fitted to various ML 163 models. I will hunt down the images I found, showing a difference of three kinds fitted to the one model.
Maybe different for petrol, diesel, engine sizes, or any other reasons, as at present, like you, i am scratching my head on this one.
Even the Mercedes dealership manual shows three different types of assembly brakets for the one vehicle and It does not show my one what-so-ever.

I know in the past car makers used odd-bin parts sometime to complete a vehicle on the production line, so it looks like this may have happened to this one.
(Never have I ever come across this in my life of mechanics or motoring, only motorbikes and cycles I have encountered wrong size cables, but these are made there and then, not a factory sealed cable end attached)

There is nothing i can do apart from remove the vehicle and go else-where, but all Mercedes dealerships in Wales, down South, seem to be one and the same franchise owning all three seperate dealerships under one name, Sinclair.

I told them to remove my one, put a knot in it, and see if it can be then adjucted correctly to take up the slack, which you and I know fine will work 100% to test if the cable is the real problem.
All the Dealership said was my ML was built in the US, shipped to Australia for the right hand market, and then somehow shipped to the UK market.
This means not a lot to me, and I am annoyed by the dealership and the way they are handling this and the time scale they told me this morning on the phone.

 

[Martyn_n]

You and me both I am afraid to say.
A1633010623 does not fit, and this is the problem they and me are having.

A dealership also knows to check and re-check things like seating of pedal etc, but I know myslef this is 100% correctly fitted and seated.
The throttle pedal assembly is idiot proof for fitting, is identical to the one removed, and will only fit one way and cannot be wrongly seated or fitted. I know what you are saying, but this is not a problem with why I have no throttle.

I have also noticed slight differences in the throttle position sensors fitted to various ML 163 models. I will hunt down the images I found, showing a difference of three kinds fitted to the one model.
Maybe different for petrol, diesel, engine sizes, or any other reasons, as at present, like you, i am scratching my head on this one.
Even the Mercedes dealership manual shows three different types of assembly brakets for the one vehicle and It does not show my one what-so-ever.

I know in the past car makers used odd-bin parts sometime to complete a vehicle on the production line, so it looks like this may have happened to this one.
(Never have I ever come across this in my life of mechanics or motoring, only motorbikes and cycles I have encountered wrong size cables, but these are made there and then, not a factory sealed cable end attached)

There is nothing i can do apart from remove the vehicle and go else-where, but all Mercedes dealerships in Wales, down South, seem to be one and the same franchise owning all three seperate dealerships under one name, Sinclair.

I told them to remove my one, put a knot in it, and see if it can be then adjucted correctly to take up the slack, which you and I know fine will work 100% to test if the cable is the real problem.
All the Dealership said was my ML was built in the US, shipped to Australia for the right hand market, and then somehow shipped to the UK market.
This means not a lot to me, and I am annoyed by the dealership and the way they are handling this and the time scale they told me this morning on the phone.

I appreciate the car is not with you at the moment, but do you have any photos of the sender unit and bracket in your specific car? Could it be that someone in the past has replaced the sender and bracket from a completely different car and somehow bodged the cable to suit this. I replaced the sender in mine and must admit whilst doing the research the only different picture I found were ones with or without the actuating lever fitted, the bodies all looked the same. Regarding the bracket I can only see A1635422040.
Very best of luck.

 

[W163ML500]

I appreciate the car is not with you at the moment, but do you have any photos of the sender unit and bracket in your specific car? Could it be that someone in the past has replaced the sender and bracket from a completely different car and somehow bodged the cable to suit this. I replaced the sender in mine and must admit whilst doing the research the only different picture I found were ones with or without the actuating lever fitted, the bodies all looked the same. Regarding the bracket I can only see A1635422040.
Very best of luck.

I have just returned home, saw your message, and like you, I am stumped with what is happening and why the dealership, not a back street garage, but the actual car maker dealership, is telling me the cable will not be with them until 8th July in Germany, and 4 days for shipping.

Sinclair of Swansea, if anyone whats to phone them and ask why it takes 4-5 weeks to get a cable for a mercedes ML500, which means I am also off the road till then with the vehicle.

I have some images of where the cable fits onto the unit in the passenger side of the engine compartment. I will look them out and see if this helps

 

[W163ML500]

here is the throttle attachment under the bonnet, and as you can see the throttle cable is too long on the inner, even with the adjustment at the end, the cable is still too lose.

 

[W163ML500]

I have decided to go on Monday and remove my ML500 from this particular dealership called MB Sinclair of Swansea.
I have thought long and hard over this and I have come to the conclusion this dealership is actually taking the mickey out of me.

Then they said also they could not supply me a vehicle to use until mine is fixed, again this is written into Mercedes dealerships because of the cost and price of stuff, they supply you with a vehicle until they fix your one.
This was also refused to me, and just a load of crap excuses given.

 

[Retaxus]

I have decided to go on Monday and remove my ML500 from this particular dealership called MB Sinclair of Swansea.
I have thought long and hard over this and I have come to the conclusion this dealership is actually taking the mickey out of me.

Then they said also they could not supply me a vehicle to use until mine is fixed, again this is written into Mercedes dealerships because of the cost and price of stuff, they supply you with a vehicle until they fix your one.
This was also refused to me, and just a load of crap excuses given.

While you are waiting for the correct cable , to get you going , extend the outer cable with a short length of 10mm plastic water pipe , cut a slot to fit over the inner and wrap with a bit of tape. Take all of 5 minutes.