Emissions - seeming anomaly

[nathanrobo]

Looking at emissions that DVLA have recorded on my C - Class, I was surprised at how high they are - Have DLVA made an error??

The car is an S204 C320 Sport CDI (AMG) with mixed 18" wheels 2009 - it's emissions are shown at 209 g /km, which seems high.

Given that my old 2004 S211 E320 CDI with mixed tyres (which are wider), this car has the old straight 6 engine is only 199 g /km

The E-class is around 250 KG heavier and 5 years older? Is this an anomaly or did MB really make zero progress on Emissions in 5 years?

I'd be interested in anyone who has any info - or even a contact in MB UK who might do a bit of checking.

 

[st13phil]

I don't have info on the S204, but according to the May 2009 edition of the W204 (Saloon) price list, the C320CDI with 18" wheels has CO2 emissions of 201g/km, so I'd say that the estate at 209 g/km is about right.

 

[nathanrobo]

Thanks Phil.

Seems like the trusty old straight 6 was really efficient for it's time

 

[nathanrobo]

I take it the later car is Euro 4 emissions compliant... My understanding is that all cars after 2005 were Euro 4 compliant. I guess with the hullabaloo about emission levels in different cities - places like London will start by eliminating cars not Euro 4 compliant, then move on to Euro 5.

 

[st13phil]

I take it the later car is Euro 4 emissions compliant...

According to the pricelists that I have, yes the C320CDI is EU4 compliant.

 

[grober]

Your car was Euro 4 compliant the 350cdi blue efficiency in 2010 was Euro5 at 180g/km. Altho your car may not have had adblue urea injection to reduce NOx it will probably have a DPF and if I was to guess the 320 may have already had modifications to reduce NOx for the US market leading to slight increase on C02 figures. In other words it had better emissions but not in the sense of the European criteria still based purely on CO2.

 

[peterboat]

Its all a con though isnt it? as the VW scam has proved which is now moving on to Fiat/Chrysler group. Before long the cat will be out of the bag and all the car makers will be known to have cheated and it wont just be the NOX, it will be the Co2 figures as well. I mean how can people be so stupid as the let the car maker also do self testing? beggers belief to be honest

 

[PobodY]

As the age-old mantra of physics goes; there's no such thing as a free lunch.

You want lower NOx, the CO2 probably goes up. You want lower particulates, the power goes down. - I don't blame the car manufacturers; they build a car to pass the test that's required of them. The irony is that the VW "test map" is the kind of thing people pay to have installed on their car; it saves fuel when cruising on the highway.

 

[nathanrobo]

Your car was Euro 4 compliant the 350cdi blue efficiency in 2010 was Euro5 at 180g/km. Altho your car may not have had adblue urea injection to reduce NOx it will probably have a DPF and if I was to guess the 320 may have already had modifications to reduce NOx for the US market leading to slight increase on C02 figures. In other words it had better emissions but not in the sense of the European criteria still based purely on CO2.

I don't think my model got a DPF (which kinda surprised me), there is just a cat that runs down from the back of the turbo. From what I have read a dpf was fitted for this model in the US though.

Crazy isn't it, we have a VED system - pretty complex, a Euro Emissions system - again pretty complex, now city by city they're likely to have different policies on cars - and all of this because the powers that be told us all to swap our petrol vehicles for diesel!

 

[pembssurf]

The whole of Europe is going to and starting to come down on diesels very hard. I think in 10 years time diesel cars will not be viable for your average Jo to drive due to massive hikes in Tax, banned from most urbanised centres and tough emissions regulations to meet that manufactures will no longer have the RnD cost v benefit to produce engines. Most diesel engineers have already stated that they have pretty much got as far as they are going to get with diesel development.

My advice for anyone buying a new car with the intention of keeping it longer than 7 years would be to go petrol all the way.

 

[markjay]

Looking at emissions that DVLA have recorded on my C - Class, I was surprised at how high they are - Have DLVA made an error??

The car is an S204 C320 Sport CDI (AMG) with mixed 18" wheels 2009 - it's emissions are shown at 209 g /km, which seems high.

Given that my old 2004 S211 E320 CDI with mixed tyres (which are wider), this car has the old straight 6 engine is only 199 g /km

The E-class is around 250 KG heavier and 5 years older? Is this an anomaly or did MB really make zero progress on Emissions in 5 years?

I'd be interested in anyone who has any info - or even a contact in MB UK who might do a bit of checking.

The answer is that the S211 was probably not equipped with DPF, while the S204 is. CO2 is the product of perfect burning cycle while carbon particulates are the product of incomplete burning. If you also burn the particulates, you get yet more CO2. So they are inversely correlated.

More here:

Edmonton Trolley Coalition

Manufactures are presented with the almost impossible task of reducing both. And not the VAG way....

 

[rf065]

My advice for anyone buying a new car with the intention of keeping it longer than 7 years would be to go petrol all the way.

Except some luxury models from Jaguar, Mercedes for example only come in 2 litre or 3 litre diesel, or a large V6 or V8 petrol which is not economical.

Manufacturers are going to have to make cars with smaller, more economical petrol engines to give customers a real choice.

Russ

 

[markjay]

...Crazy isn't it, we have a VED system - pretty complex, a Euro Emissions system - again pretty complex, now city by city they're likely to have different policies on cars - and all of this because the powers that be told us all to swap our petrol vehicles for diesel!

VED system is a method of taxation.... it is only loosely related to whatever seems 'fair' or whatever is on the political agenda of the day.

This is also applicable to other method of taxation from Congestion Charge (currently based on greenhouse gas rather than air quality - the latter will apparently be addresses by a separate charge) to fuel duty.

I am not an anarchist, not a cynic.... but taxation is more about getting what you can from whom you can (while appearing to be 'fair'), rather than an absolute system.

 

[190]

There is only one fair system and that's to scrap VED and put it on fuel. Problem is the electorate overall is not smart enough to recognise it's fair and so the government of the day see it as political suicide. It'll never happen.

 

[nathanrobo]

I took the cat out today and there are two sections that to me look like a converter and a DPF. I'll have to take the part numbers off both parts to see what they are.

Will report back when I get some info.

 

[markjay]

There is only one fair system and that's to scrap VED and put it on fuel. Problem is the electorate overall is not smart enough to recognise it's fair and so the government of the day see it as political suicide. It'll never happen.

Currently fuel is already heavily loaded with Fuel Duty and VAT - comprising around 80% of the price at the pump. Any attempt to load further tax on fuel at the pump will be very difficult - the infamous 'fuel tax escalator' had to be suspended on several occasions for this very reason, the first time being by Tony Blair during the 2000 fuel protests.

The 'beauty' of VED (from the government's poi point of view) is that this is a 'separate' tax that does not make petrol or diesel oil look more expensive than it already is....

 

[nathanrobo]

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Here are the two parts on the exhaust running from the rear of the turbo - part numbers A2044904514 & A2044904414 both have a honeycomb interior

Any ideas if one of these is a DPF - I can find the part number to the smaller section and it appears to be a Cat - but is the larger bit with the two sensors also a Cat or DPF??

 

[grober]

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/engine/55126-diesel-particulate-filters.html

according to that thread. If you want to know if you have a particulate filter look at your vehicle data card for the option code 474

 

[nathanrobo]

That was easy then... I don't seems like the catalyst is in two pieces then.