Employment Relocation Rights

[bigjim]

My Wife's company is relocating. She already commutes 60minutes to get to their current offices. The move would double her journey time.

There are obviously several different options for her to consider, including getting a different job.

In her negotiations with HR she has cited a 4 hour two way commute as unreasonable. They have replied formally stating that 4 hours per day is a reasonable commute!

Our next step, if we choose to fight this, would be legal advice.

I just wondered what other poeple thought was a 'reasonable' commute to and from a place of work everyday? Job is mainly officed based with some foriegn travel mixed in once a month.

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Four hours a day, a reasonable commute? They are taking the p1ss aren't they?

I would say a commute of roughly an hour each way, although I'm sure that wouldn't really apply to people working in London?

I suppose it comes down to how much she values her job......

 

[Satch]

Employee Relocation Rights - News and Views - HCR | HCR

A difficult area because it is all subjective. Is a two hour commute "reasonable"?

Well, mine is one and a half and it sucks but I know a lot of people I work with have far longer. Current record holder comes in from Gloucester to the City every day.

 

[bigjim]

Well, mine is one and a half and it sucks but I know a lot of people I work with have far longer. Current record holder comes in from Gloucester to the City every day.

Wow! I hope he gets paid well!

 

[A210AMG]

Would your wife be happy with a 4 hour commute every day?

The job / salary / perks must be VERY good for me to want to do that. How about millage allowance etc is there any contribution?

Have you children? as that's surely not possible if she wants to see much of them.

Sorry no idea where you stand legally I guess not much chance to be honest, Hope you get it sorted but makes my 10 / 15 minuite walk to work each morning look ace

 

[Mr E]

How often does she travel into the office?

Our policy is that if we are required to be somewhere more than 2 days a week that is 1.5 hours or more away, it is considered a "disruptive" commute and are entitled either to stay over (if feasible) or receive a disruptive commute allowance.

Would there be any opportunity to work from home? My base location is now home, and I can claim mileage and travel time int the office if I'm required to be there.

The attitude of HR may come down to the reason for the move and whether they consider your wife to be "key". Have they recently been taken over or similar?

 

[kwakdonut]

Could the company not provide a relocation allowance? Is moving nearer the new location feasible, not only for her, but you too? Don't know where you are located so have no idea of house prices etc. Also, if you have kids settled in school, the last thing you would probably want to do is move.....

 

[brucemillar]

I am not sure on the exact hours that constitute reasonable/disruptive.

My view would be that a four hour commute daily requires a reasonable debate about flexible/home working. i.e. Could she work from home 2/3 days per week. Is she required at the office on a strict 09:00 - 17:00 routine or is it that she is required to do xx hours in any given week.

Sadly, the climate now tends to be one off: If you don't like it we have plenty of people who do so that makes it reasonable.

If she can negotiate around flexi time / homeworking that may be a bigger benefit to all. e.g. four hours at home with a phone and an computer is more productive than four hours on a train/car.

Good luck

 

[Ted]

She already drives an hour each way so they are 'omly' asking for another hour each way travel.

However I look at it this way. Does she really want to spend 16% of her life driving to/from work or stuck in a traffic jam? - and that is assuming good weather and traffic conditions.
Or another way. assuming she is at work for 8 hours, asleep for 8 hours, and spends (at least) an hour getting ready for work, does she really want to spend over half of her available 'leisure' time in traffic?

Plus an EXTRA £100 per week (at least) in fuel and running costs.


Unless the job is really special, I think that I would be looking for another job.

 

[bigjim]

I guess my original thread was a leading question.

My point is, how do you prove what is 'reasonable' in a court of law. It's down to interpretation.

The bottom line is she will get another job but how she leaves this current company is still up for debate.
The company have said her choices are:
She can move (relocation allowance, standard 8K tax free - pay back whenever)
She can ask for redundancy.
She can resign.

I think there may be another route
She can refuse to move and not accept redundancy - then I guess it would go to tribunal to determine what 'reasonable' would be in this case.
or
They find her another job within the company closer to home.

I really don't think it will come to that.....she isn't overly motivated to be litigious in anyway and she is a bit non-confrontational (that's why I like here )

Anyway, thanks for the advice and words of wisdom. I'll keep you informed.

 

[tagnut]

I think there may be another route
She can refuse to move and not accept redundancy - then I guess it would go to tribunal to determine what 'reasonable' would be in this case.

I don't see how this would work? If there's nothing else within a reasonable distance that the company can offer her what would you/she expect to get? The company isn't going to change it's decision to move.

The standard outcome in this situation is, as far as I am aware, one of:

1. Put up with extra travel
2. Relocate
3. Redundancy
4. Co. offers alternative job closer to home (if available)
5. Resign

As others have said there may be an opportunity for some home working but you haven't indicated if that's possible and/or the company would wear it.

Edit: - The company having offered the £8K relocation allowance I'm sure would be deemed to have been "reasonable" in the event of any litigation.

 

[MercFanUk]

Lets put it this way - when looking for a job, even the job centre can only impose a maximum of 1 hour as a reasonable travel time each way. You can voluntarily do more of course, but they can't insist on it.

 

[Rory]

What "level" of job is it?

My wife (for the next few weeks) works for the Government in a fairly basic clerical role. But from the level above her (so that's from not very high) the job is considered to be "mobile" and they can be asked to work anywhere in the UK.

For her grade, an hour by public transport is considered reasonable. Unless you and the office happen to be on the same bus / train route then it's hard to get anywhere in an hour on public transport.

 

[Mr E]

"Reasonable" is always going to be tricky. One way to approach it is to consider whether a 100% increase in commute time with no compensation is reasonable. Another is to consider whether a commute that equates to an additional 50% of the time spent at work to be reasonable.

Other things that need to be considered - salary level, seniority, reason for move.

Redundancy would seem to be the best choice to consider - she should come out with something from it, and your comment seems to suggest that she wouldn't find it too difficult to get another position.

 

[crockers]

Have they given the redundancy formula by which they calculate the amount payable?
Sounds as if she wants to leave and is looking for best way out. Or have I misinterpreted the OPs post.
Does travel constitute part of the working day under European work directive? Has she signed an opt out?

 

[tagnut]

Does travel constitute part of the working day under European work directive? Has she signed an opt out?

Good question this one. Don't think it does but not certain.

 

[crockers]

Just looked and travel doesn't come under Eu work directive.

As I see it she has one of three options.
Accept it and bite bullet.
Negotiate better terms to cover the travel / move etc.
Or just take redundancy.

Don't resign.

 

[S207]

A slight tangent - but may be helpful.

The company I last worked at as a contractor had health and safety guidance for working at locations other than your normal office that stated a day involving more than 12 hours door to door was entitled to an overnight stay. IMHO a reasonable position for an every-now-and-again event, let alone a day-after-day commute.

 

[st13phil]

As others have already said, "Reasonable" is open to interpretation and will - to some extent - depend upon seniority, remuneration package, etc.

My employer relocated last year and we made the concious decision that we wanted to keep as many of the employees as possible and so we deliberately excluded some potential new locations as we took the view that they would have represented an unreasonable additional travel burden for too many of our people. "Unreasonable" in our sense was taken to be around 15miles or 40mins.

Unless there are extraordinary circumstances, I doubt any employment tribunal would consider a doubling of travel time from one hour to two would be reasonable (by the same count, it's unlikely that they would find a doubling from 15mins to 30mins unreasonable). As such, your wife would be seen as being made redundant by the move and therefore entitled to redundancy pay.

Tagnut summed up the options pretty well but in the circumstances I fancy that your wife would have a very strong case were the employer to force the "it's reasonable, if you don't like it resign" line. That said, jaw-jaw is always better than war-war, so if she's looking to leave then she should be trying to negotiate a good severance package rather than an appointment at a tribunal.

 

[tagnut]

As such, your wife would be seen as being made redundant by the move and therefore entitled to redundancy pay.

jaw-jaw is always better than war-war, so if she's looking to leave then she should be trying to negotiate a good severance package rather than an appointment at a tribunal.

Spot on