End of the road for the 747.

[Dryce]

We used to always go for upstairs on KLM, this was just in Business but felt like a small private cabin.

Fits upstairs varied by carrier.

In business (old fashioned larger seat or life flat) we always preferred the upper decks of 737-300 and -400. Quieter ambience and more secluded.

BA used to fit out some with economy seats in the 90s with more leg room. We used to always try and arrange through friendly staff to get these. Staff on long overnight flights usually left the back of the upper deck stocked with snacks and drinks so you could self-serve.

 

[clk320x]

Sad news

 

[Deleted member 65149]

We used to always go for upstairs on KLM, this was just in Business but felt like a small private cabin.

My first experience of Business class upstairs in a 747 was to Riyadh. I loved that private cabin feel but remember the flight home mostly for witnessing the queue for the toilet as soon as we left Saudi airspace - everyone was changing into Western clothes (no, not cowboy hats and chaps!)

 

[st13phil]

The 747 certainly revolutionised passenger air travel. A couple of the more memorable flights I recall:

1. Early evening flight from Toronto to Heathrow in 1989. In cruise at 38,000ft having just crossed the coast near Newfoundland and with the cabin crew serving drinks, we hear a hurried announcement over the tannoy, "Passengers return to their seats immediately, crew prepare for emergency descent!", and shortly afterwards the nose pointed earthwards. Each time the pilot levelled out to avoid overspeed in the descent, the toilet / galley blocks in the centre of the cabin shook, and we dropped to 19,000ft in around 90 seconds. After the drama of the descent the skipper made another announcement apologising and explaining that they'd had a cockpit windscreen delaminate in flight. The return to YYZ took nearly three times as long as it's taken to get to our point of turn round.
2. Late 1990's on a BA flight to Philly, upstairs in Business class with my then MD, the pair of us quaffing wine throughout the flight. When we de-planed, the Purser smiled and handed us each a carrier bag with a bottle of wine in it accompanied by the words, "You've drunk the rest of the stock during the flight, so you may as well have the last two bottles". Oops...

And for those old enough to have flown on an early -100 example and wondered why the cabin ventilation shut down just before the take-off roll started: It was because they were so marginal on thrust that non-critical power drain on the engines had to be eliminated to guarantee getting the thing off the ground.

 

[GeeJayW]

...
And for those old enough to have flown on an early -100 example and wondered why the cabin ventilation shut down just before the take-off roll started: It was because they were so marginal on thrust that non-critical power drain on the engines had to be eliminated to guarantee getting the thing off the ground.

My first flight in any aircraft was a 747 in 1981, when me and the missus flew to JFK from Heathrow. Ronald Rayguns had just fired the air traffic controllers, so there were much fewer trans-Atlantic flight corridors available. A temperamental circuit breaker made us miss the original take off slot, but we had already been pushed back so could not disembark. Just had to sit on the plane for several hours on the ground until a new slot came along. The air-con was off and the cabin became very stuffy. Once airborne, all was good and we enjoyed our flight.

Customs and immigration officials in JFK on the other hand were truly horrible, to say nothing about the scrote in our hotel that stole my camera gear. Overall, not the most enjoyable experience one could have. To this day, though I've been there several times either on business or holiday, I'm still uncomfortable travelling to the US.

 

[219]

One of the famous aeroplane designers (his name escapes me at the moment) said: "ugly planes don't fly" - the [original] 747 is one of the most beautiful planes out there, as far as I'm concerned. It's a shame it's going to join Concorde ...

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder , I just can’t see the 747 as beautiful in the way that the Spitfire, Comet , VC10 or Concorde are .

 

[219]

BA retires entire 747 fleet after travel downturn - BBC News

British Airways is permanently grounding its jumbo jets which are nicknamed "the queen of the skies".

www.bbc.co.uk

From the link

“Fastest operating commercial plane, with a top speed of just over 650mph”

Strange , then , that the VC-10 still holds the record for the fastest subsonic transatlantic crossing at 5 hours 1 minute .

 

[219]

My first flight in any aircraft was a 747 in 1981, when me and the missus flew to JFK from Heathrow. Ronald Rayguns had just fired the air traffic controllers, so there were much fewer trans-Atlantic flight corridors available. A temperamental circuit breaker made us miss the original take off slot, but we had already been pushed back so could not disembark. Just had to sit on the plane for several hours on the ground until a new slot came along. The air-con was off and the cabin became very stuffy. Once airborne, all was good and we enjoyed our flight.

Customs and immigration officials in JFK on the other hand were truly horrible, to say nothing about the scrote in our hotel that stole my camera gear. Overall, not the most enjoyable experience one could have. To this day, though I've been there several times either on business or holiday, I'm still uncomfortable travelling to the US.

My first time in an aeroplane was in a VC-10 from Glasgow to Schipol in 1970 , and that was where I first saw a 747 , it was pretty new then .

I still remember the push in the back during that VC-10 takeoff, have never experienced anything like it since .

I have never been in either a 747 or Concorde , but then I only fly once every few years and could probably count on my fingers the number of commercial flights I’ve taken .

 

[st13phil]

Strange , then , that the VC-10

Not strange at all. The VC-10 isn't an operating commercial plane, is it?

 

[219]

Not strange at all. The VC-10 isn't an operating commercial plane, is it?

It was also quoted as having a top speed of 580mph , but perhaps the 747 can’t carry enough fuel to go faster over that distance ?

A high top speed is only of use if you can exploit it , and both aircraft did operate side by side for many years , so they were competitors .

VC-10 incidentally were in service for 51 years , with only two crashes

 

[John N]

Not strange at all. The VC-10 isn't an operating commercial plane, is it?

It was Operating from RAF Brize Norton until January 2013!

 

[Darrell]

I’ve only been on a 747 a few times but the most memorable one was a Kuwait Airways 200M that I took from Heathrow to Kuwait in March 94.

It was memorable for me cos it had about 40 passengers on it and it was alcohol free!!

 

[st13phil]

It was Operating from RAF Brize Norton until January 2013!

Indeed it was. But I don’t recall the RAF operating commercial passenger flights, and the 747 is still operating commercially.

On a separate note, the VC-10 was a great example of why the British aircraft industry found it impossible to compete with Boeing and others. It was designed to meet a very specific brief (hot and high, short runways) that were pretty unique to one operator. As wonderful an aircraft as it was (is), that hamstrung it’s efficiency on less demanding routes and made it an expensive proposition to both purchase and operate. while in many respects it was superior to the the B707, the latter sold more than 800 while the VC-10 managed less than 60.

 

[GeeJayW]

Indeed it was. But I don’t recall the RAF operating commercial passenger flights, and the 747 is still operating commercially.

On a separate note, the VC-10 was a great example of why the British aircraft industry found it impossible to compete with Boeing and others. It was designed to meet a very specific brief (hot and high, short runways) that were pretty unique to one operator. As wonderful an aircraft as it was (is), that hamstrung it’s efficiency on less demanding routes and made it an expensive proposition to both purchase and operate. while in many respects it was superior to the the B707, the latter sold more than 800 while the VC-10 managed less than 60.

I hadn't realised that the VC-10 was produced in such low numbers...

 

[Flyinspanner]

I did LAX to LHR in 8.5 hours last year in a 747, we had a stonking jetstream we rode all the way home.
Groundspeed was around 750mph

 

[st13phil]

I hadn't realised that the VC-10 was produced in such low numbers...

It was technologically superior to the 707 in terms of avionics and had superior performance and passenger experience (the cabin was much quieter due to the engine position) but it was a commercial failure.

The design was heavily influenced by BOAC’s stated need for hot & high, short runway performance, but by the time it came to market BOAC had changed their mind about what they needed, and the VC-10 just couldn’t compete on initial nor operating costs with the B707. The fact it could do things that the B707 couldn’t was irrelevant because no-one actually needed its unique extra capabilities. Very sad.

 

[GeeJayW]

It was technologically superior to the 707 in terms of avionics and had superior performance and passenger experience (the cabin was much quieter due to the engine position) but it was a commercial failure.

The design was heavily influenced by BOAC’s stated need for hot & high, short runway performance, but by the time it came to market BOAC had changed their mind about what they needed, and the VC-10 just couldn’t compete on initial nor operating costs with the B707. The fact it could do things that the B707 couldn’t was irrelevant because no-one actually needed its unique extra capabilities. Very sad.

Thanks.

I had one flight on a VC-10 and was impressed with the reduced noise in the cabin. I seem to recall it had a steeper climb out than usual too, but could be mistaken.

 

[st13phil]

I seem to recall it had a steeper climb out than usual too, but could be mistaken.

That would be right - it’s ability to get off the ground from short, high-altitude, high ambient temperature runways meant it was a bit of a hotrod in normal conditions which is one reason the pilots loved them.

By contrast, a pilot friend of mine told me years ago that the only reason the original Airbus A340's could actually get airborne was due to the combined effects of the length of the take-off roll and the curvature of the earth

 

[GeeJayW]

Thanks.

I had one flight on a VC-10 and was impressed with the reduced noise in the cabin. I seem to recall it had a steeper climb out than usual too, but could be mistaken.

Sorry, I'm mistaken. Just looked up its operational history and I couldn't have flown on a VC-10, it had ceased to operate commercially by the time I began taking business trips in 1984. Strange, without looking it up, I was quite confident I'd been on one. My loss I guess.

 

[John N]

Complete Post takeover:

I had dealings with the Sad Demise of the VC-10 in its retirement from the RAF.

At least four Companies Approached the VC-10 Project Team, asking to Purchase any Conway Enbines that were available, they were offering serious Money and as the MoD were interested in making a few Quid they entered into negotiations!

Two Interested Parties were Charities (Duxford was one) the other two and I kid you NOT, wanted to Mount a Conway on the Back of an Articulated Lorry Trailer, in order to basically see " How fast it would go"