EU Commission launches legal action over UK air quality

[ItalianTuneUp]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26257703

Seems like there could be trouble ahead for diesel car drivers?

 

[PenelopePitstop]

"If the government is to cut levels it will need to take drastic actions, say campaigners. Around half of new car sales are diesel powered, they say. There will need to be strict low emissions zones in cities."

Aren't new diesels low emission anyway? All new diesels are in low emission group 4 in Germany, so their Umweltzone sticker just proves it.

 

[phoenix550]

Diesel exhaust gases are nastier than petrol. What a shocker! It's pretty obvious if you sit behind a bus in traffic, which is why I never do it with an open window.

These environmentals can never be satisfied. They want diesel because it gets more mpg and now they start whining.

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Yes, I thought new diesels are quite low emission...very few carbon dioxides, as Clarkson would say.

This then could put pressure on older diesels to comply with impossible targets perhaps? Thus leading to them being retired early? Or perhaps having 'low emission' zones springing up everywhere with snail '20 is plenty' signs?

 

[meeeb]

Diesel exhaust gases are nastier than petrol. What a shocker! It's pretty obvious if you sit behind a bus in traffic, which is why I never do it with an open window.

It's why we have DPFs of course. As the name implies, they filter diesel particulates, which is the bit that damages health, so presumably modern diesel cars will meet the requirements - unless, out of spite for our anti-EU sabre rattling, they make the requirements totally unrealistic. And I wouldn't put that past the puerile buggers.

Hopefully we'll soon be ditching this Toytown money sponge anyway.

 

[Sp!ke]

I suspect that new rules will soon be imposed making it prohibitively expensive to drive a non DPF Diesel and any car that has removed its DPF will be scrapped or forced to refit.

(see recent MOT changes regarding the latter)

I sincerely hope they apply these rules to taxis and buses first as these two seem to be the biggest culprits in London.

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

So I wonder if UK levels are 'too high' due to things like dpf removal?

Did I hear right that the dpf gets clogged up, and then it needs cleaning out? What other symptoms does a blocked dpf cause? Sorry if these are newbie questions.

And is cleaning dpf expensive?

 

[Spinal]

So I wonder if UK levels are 'too high' due to things like dpf removal?

Did I hear right that the dpf gets clogged up, and then it needs cleaning out? What other symptoms does a blocked dpf cause? Sorry if these are newbie questions.

And is cleaning dpf expensive?

Not sure if this is correct, but I'm told an italian tune-up clears the DPF...

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Not sure if this is correct, but I'm told an italian tune-up clears the DPF...

Completely? How often does one need to give the motor an Italian tune up?

I thought I saw DPF cleaning services available from some companies, so if a good old-fashioned boot down the road clears the DPF out, why are these companies in demand, if they are that is?

 

[grober]

The "pollution" referred to is Nitrogen Dioxide not CO2. Mercedes have had the technology available to reduce exhaust Oxides of Nitrogen since about 2006. They have chosen not to fit this to their European manufactured passenger cars AFAIK as there was no legislation requiring them to do so. They have however fitted their BlueTEC systems to DIESEL cars in the USA due to stricter limits for oxides of Nitrogen in certain states. BlueTEC Clean Diesel Cars and Vehicles | Mercedes-Benz There is some evidence that a huge and rapid shift of the UK vehicle fleet to predominantly diesel power [ diesels unfortunately produce higher levels of oxides of nitrogen] by successive vehicle and fuel taxation policy over the last 10 years has in fact exacerbated the problem. That and the difference in fuel consumption figures experienced in real world driving and official manufacturers figures which have largely remained unquestioned to date.
DIESEL

PETROL

Notice the difference between diesel and petrol NOx figures for the various standards

 

[Harrythedog]

We drive the same cars, buses, HGV's as other EU countries so are we the only ones affected and if so why?

 

[E270 Owner]

Stop the HGV's running riot all over the country.

We have too many.

Dartford Crossing sth bnd (was just perched on top of it for 25mins in traffic) its "chock a block" with articulated lorries some old some new mostly foreign owned.

We import too much stuff.

 

[Teflonso]

My E350 is BlueTec Euro 6 and I don't even have room for a space saver spare wheel - there's a tank under the boot floor for the urea to be injected into the exhaust. When it runs out I'll get ten starts to get it sorted then I'm stranded. Computer says, "no".

I'm much happier with this than the idea of pootling around town blocking up my DPF and potentially seeding a massive repair bill. It's madness that you have to give a car a steady speed motorway run now and then to blow the cobwebs off.


.

 

[st13phil]

The EU are being a bit dishonest about this.

The fact is that southern England is one of the most densely populated areas in the EU. Also, the prevalent wind direction means that polluted air from other northern European countries tends to be driven over - guess where? - southern England, where it often "hangs" for days or weeks at a time when it meets up with the Atlantic weather systems coming from the west.

This all adds up to a propensity for high pollution levels, about which we in Britain can do pretty much sweet FA.

 

[Sp!ke]

Isn't the air mainly Nitrogen and Oxygen anyway?

 

[Giantvanman]

So I wonder if UK levels are 'too high' due to things like dpf removal?

Did I hear right that the dpf gets clogged up, and then it needs cleaning out? What other symptoms does a blocked dpf cause? Sorry if these are newbie questions.

And is cleaning dpf expensive?

I can't speak for other makes but my wife's Saab showed a warning light for dpf and the solution, as quoted in the handbook, was to drive for minimum 15 mins at 70mph. We did that and the dpf cleared.

It only clogs when doing short trips at low speed over a long period of time, apparently.

 

[Spinal]

Completely? How often does one need to give the motor an Italian tune up?

I thought I saw DPF cleaning services available from some companies, so if a good old-fashioned boot down the road clears the DPF out, why are these companies in demand, if they are that is?

Again, based on hearsay - but my understanding is that if your DPF is damaged/faulty (often by faulty MAF sensors) you end up damaging the catalyst. This means that when it doesn't burn off the cr@p, and leads people to blame the DPF... when in reality the cause is elsewhere...

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Maybe UK should propose charging all countries sending NO2-polluted air over here? That would be popular now wouldn't it? And charge Brussels for all the hot air generated too... just think how much unnecessary CO2 those MEPs exhale!

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

I can't speak for other makes but my wife's Saab showed a warning light for dpf and the solution, as quoted in the handbook, was to drive for minimum 15 mins at 70mph. We did that and the dpf cleared.

It only clogs when doing short trips at low speed over a long period of time, apparently.

Good news. Then I think there can't be much crud in my DPF, as it gets plenty of motorway driving.

 

[grober]

This is an extremely interesting and very readable article which actually addresses many of the issues of the European diesel fuel boom. Environmental Sciences Europe | Full text | Critical evaluation of the European diesel car boom - global comparison, environmental effects and various national strategies
Conclusions section:_

Europe's car fleets have been persistently transformed from being petrol-driven to diesel-driven over the last 20 years. This paper investigates on how this came to be and why Europe took a distinct route as compared to other parts of the world. It also attempts to evaluate the outcome of stated goals of this transformation which was primarily a robust reduction in GHG emissions. We conclude that global warming has been negatively affected, and air pollution has become alarming in many European locations. More progressive development scenarios could have prevented these outcomes.----

One of its major assertions appears to be that while Europe chose to go down the diesel path we might have been better served by petrol hybrid technology.
another insight :-
We believe the European oil industry co-initiated the shift to diesel cars in the 1980s and 1990s in order to find outlets for middle distillates. ‘Combined production requires the sale of certain amounts of gasoline and middle distillates. Since fuel oil sales [power generation ] are declining, this share has to be marketed as diesel vehicle fuel after appropriate conversion
and
---believes that new environmental regulations to reduce the sulphur content of fuels could lead to a 50% increase in CO2 refinery emissions Should the observed historic growth of diesel demand in Europe continue, diesel market dynamics [ increased demand means more energy used to produce more diesel fuel of the correct quality ]would result in diesel refinery-CO2-emission penalties eventually exceeding diesel vehicle benefits .

Diesel car penetration in major world markets. Expressed as percentages, either annual new car registrations or annual entire car fleet composition. Data sources: EU registration data [5,13]; data 1990 to 1993 (Western Europe, including Iceland, Norway, Switzerland); data 1994 to 2011 (EU-15); EU fleet data for 2006, 2008 and 2010 (ACEA, http://www.acea.be); EU fleet data 1990 to 2005 [14]; Japan fleet data [15]; US registration data 2000 to 2011 ( [16], data extrapolated back to 1990).

Dieselization in 1995 (blue columns) and 2009 (purple columns) according to EEA [17]. Percentage of diesel cars in the total passenger car fleet. Threshold exceedances (in %, red) according to the Gothenburg protocol for NOx emissions in 2010 [19].