EU Referendum

Should Britain Exit the EU?

  • Leave

    Votes: 105 64.0%
  • Remain

    Votes: 59 36.0%

  • Total voters
    164
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The EU is a concept that too few people around Europe truly buy into. Most just want to get on with life which means earning a living. If the EU wants a fight which country is going to do its bidding? Only the Germans have the strength to truly hurt us and their CBI has already made its position clear and warned of job losses if they pick a fight with the UK. So the German electorate will vote out politicans next year that advocate a trade war with one of its major markets. The money will win.

The EU is nothing...it's an artifical construct which most real humans don't give 2 figs about. If the $hit truly comes down see how many people will really fight for it.
 
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Having just voted, I'm amazed by how lax the system is. No proof of ID required and you make your mark in pencil! I'm not saying that these things would be abused, but it makes me wonder....
 
The rise of fascism off the back of troubled economic situations.

This is the big issue for me, although I'd argue that what we thought of as the centre ground is now a few degrees to the right, meaning society in general is now more right leaning than it once was and in turn accepts many right leaning principles and ideologies that might otherwise have been rejected.

And in turn might explain how the EU which on the surface is meant to serve the people, actually does much of its governance from an unelected, barely disguised totalitarian leadership. Although I do feel that the Bullingdon classicist went too far in comparing the EU to the more radical right wing elements of the 30s.
 
This is the big issue for me, although I'd argue that what we thought of as the centre ground is now a few degrees to the right, meaning society in general is now more right leaning than it once was and in turn accepts many right leaning principles and ideologies that might otherwise have been rejected.

And in turn might explain how the EU which on the surface is meant to serve the people, actually does much of its governance from an unelected, barely disguised totalitarian leadership. Although I do feel that the Bullingdon classicist went too far in comparing the EU to the more radical right wing elements of the 30s.

Some days I read your posts and it feels like I'm listening to Jeremy Paxman on an episode of University Challenge.

Whoosh.......that's the sound of what you just said flying over my head. :dk:
 
Some days I read your posts and it feels like I'm listening to Jeremy Paxman on an episode of University Challenge.

Whoosh.......that's the sound of what you just said flying over my head. :dk:
Between the lines he's saying "we" all used to be slightly left-leaning with a social conscience whereas now, what used to be the "natural" centre ground would be classed as right wing compared to what "we" used to be like.

In other words, politics has taken at least two steps to the right without changing any names (other than adding the word "New")
 
Some days I read your posts and it feels like I'm listening to Jeremy Paxman on an episode of University Challenge.

Whoosh.......that's the sound of what you just said flying over my head. :dk:

Sorry Red, trying to keep to the rules by not mentioning parties and politicians directly.

SPX covered the first point.

The last point picks up on our ex Mayor of London having made a big fuss about studying classics as opposed to Philosophy, Politics and Economics (PPE) which many of his contemporaries believe to be the perfect, one size fits all, educational background for running the country. He feels that his education allows him to make observations that PPE educated folks might have missed. Although, not sure everybody would agree with that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Oxford_people_with_PPE_degrees

.
 
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Having just voted, I'm amazed by how lax the system is. No proof of ID required and you make your mark in pencil! I'm not saying that these things would be abused, but it makes me wonder....

I queried this at the last election when I was told not even the voting card was required. Just give them a name & address & the officers in the polling station give you a ballot.

"Isn't that wide open to abuse?" I asked.

"Yes." They said
 
Between the lines he's saying "we" all used to be slightly left-leaning with a social conscience whereas now, what used to be the "natural" centre ground would be classed as right wing compared to what "we" used to be like.

In other words, politics has taken at least two steps to the right without changing any names (other than adding the word "New")

That's the thing, who is "We"?
 
Sorry Red, trying to keep to the rules by not mentioning parties and politicians directly.

SPX covered the first point.

The last point picks up on our ex Mayor of London having made a big fuss about studying classics as opposed to Philosophy, Politics and Economics (PPE) which many of his contemporaries believe to be the perfect, one size fits all, educational background for running the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Oxford_people_with_PPE_degrees

I see, that's a bit clearer, it's the second part I was struggling with.

The issues with "studying" to be a politician is the end product is designed to be like all others who have preceded and taken the same path.

This is why when someone appears on the scene that hasn't been schooled in this manner they can sometimes be embraced by the populous as a breath of fresh air. Good or bad, as is so obvious across the pond currently.

I'm a relatively simple person in this respect. I've always though the Education minister should be an Ex Headmaster. The Fisheries minister should be an ex Fisherman etc etc. so never quite understood the requirement for an oxbridge education.

This entire EU referendum has been quite unpalatable to be honest, from both camps. It's done nothing to change my distrust in many of the people that claim to represent us, however by the very nature of the cross party campaign it has exposed me to some politicians of whom I may never have heard from otherwise. Some were interesting and other reinforced my stereotypical idea of who they are and what they stand for.
 
This is the big issue for me, although I'd argue that what we thought of as the centre ground is now a few degrees to the right, meaning society in general is now more right leaning than it once was and in turn accepts many right leaning principles and ideologies that might otherwise have been rejected.
.

Between the lines he's saying "we" all used to be slightly left-leaning with a social conscience whereas now, what used to be the "natural" centre ground would be classed as right wing compared to what "we" used to be like.

In other words, politics has taken at least two steps to the right without changing any names (other than adding the word "New")

Yes, absolutely, a wholesale shift to the right and it energises extreme right wing factions and legitimises their arguments. The prospect of far right movements in Europe (France, Germany and Greece at least have such threats) gaining traction is a terrifying prospect and the notion that it will be business as usual with Europe if we leave assumes no change in Europe where the reality is Brexit could trigger an absolute ****storm. With that going on over our shoulder, how long before we are dragged in and at what cost?
I saw the 'looks like we wasted our time' skit. They fought and we had 70 years of peace. Now, we are prepared to walk away from that achievement with no regard to what happens to a continent British blood was spilled in to create that peace. No doubt the Brexiters will be out on Remembrance Sunday commemorating the sacrifices made but it will be them who have trampled on the legacy. If we had any respect for those who fought for our freedoms we would remain in Europe and fight to maintain that peace and freedom that fascist groups will destroy given half a chance. Not just run away like a grade A quitter.
 
The EU is a concept that too few people around Europe truly buy into. Most just want to get on with life which means earning a living. If the EU wants a fight which country is going to do its bidding?
The EU is nothing...it's an artifical construct which most real humans don't give 2 figs about. If the $hit truly comes down see how many people will really fight for it.

There is an aspect to the EU which people have conveniently forgotton about. Indeed there will be many on here who will not have been born till after the cold war era effectively ended with the coming down of the Berlin Wall and will never have experienced the Soviet threat. Before that many of the "new" EU countries were satellite states of the Soviet Union. I don't think they dislike the EU in fact having lived with the communist system since the second world war they couldn't wait to join the the corrupt capitalist unelected bureaucratic nightmare that is the the EU. Wonder why?

Now NATO was the military based alliance that was formed post World War 2 to prevent further Russian incursion into Western Europe and it was under its protective umbrella that the original EU was formed. There has been recent talk of NATO being replaced by a European army but since NATO derives much of its military muscle from the US I don't see that as likely. Further I don't know of any Nato country at present encouraging the UK to leave the EU.
Couple this to present day Russia flexing its military muscles under Putin and todays vote has an additional military significance. Remember this is a guy who shot a civilian jet out of the sky over the Ukraine and is at present using White phophorous airburst bombs [banned under the Geneva Convention] on civilian areas of Raqqa.
Claims that images show Russia using white phosphorus on ISIS in Syria | Daily Mail Online

I imagine that is a guy mighty interested in todays vote outcome. JUST SOMETHING ELSE TO THINK ABOUT WHEN PLACING YOUR VOTE.:dk:
 
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.118739911

£57,093,808 bet.

In 1.14 returned including stake @ 1.

Out 8.2 returned including stake @ 1.

That's been reasonably representative of the odds for the past month or so and I find it interested it is so different to the many "polls" we hear about out.

As a rule of thumb I generally trust a bookmaker more than a poll, exchange rates normally agree, however it's interesting to have seen exchange rates and bookmakers in quite different positions over this event.
 
I queried this at the last election when I was told not even the voting card was required. Just give them a name & address & the officers in the polling station give you a ballot.

"Isn't that wide open to abuse?" I asked.

"Yes." They said

Things that make you go hmm.... ;)
 
I saw the 'looks like we wasted our time' skit. They fought and we had 70 years of peace. Now, we are prepared to walk away from that achievement with no regard to what happens to a continent British blood was spilled in to create that peace. No doubt the Brexiters will be out on Remembrance Sunday commemorating the sacrifices made but it will be them who have trampled on the legacy. If we had any respect for those who fought for our freedoms we would remain in Europe and fight to maintain that peace and freedom that fascist groups will destroy given half a chance. Not just run away like a grade A quitter.

Utter b0ll0cks, what are we going to do? Start telling other countries how to run themselves?
 
I queried this at the last election when I was told not even the voting card was required. Just give them a name & address & the officers in the polling station give you a ballot.

"Isn't that wide open to abuse?" I asked.

"Yes." They said

There's more security in place at a £20 nightclub, UV stamps and all.
 
I know - I don't understand why some id is not asked for. What would happen if I got to the polling station and someone had voted for me?
 
and why pencil?

One of my employees mentioned this to me today, no ID, had to use a pencil, it all seemed a bit odd.
 
The 'stay and help change' thing is ********.

The EU has had nigh-on 30 years. If it was so fantastic we would not even be discussing this question. You cannot marry disparate economies. The experiment has failed.

You don't stay on the titanic you get off as fast as you can, hoping others will follow your example.

If we don't Leave now we will be tied to those ****ty european economies for ever.
 
Having just voted, I'm amazed by how lax the system is. No proof of ID required and you make your mark in pencil! I'm not saying that these things would be abused, but it makes me wonder....

I queried this at the last election when I was told not even the voting card was required. Just give them a name & address & the officers in the polling station give you a ballot.

"Isn't that wide open to abuse?" I asked.

"Yes." They said

Things that make you go hmm.... ;)

Having just voted, without my polling card (clearly states one doesn't require the card in order to vote), the official just asked my address and house number, he then told me my name and then handed me my ballot paper. He also advised his colleague of my unique polling number which was then recorded and my name and address was struck out.

Clearly anyone could have presented themselves as me but what matters is only one vote can be cast using those particulars. Should some one else come along and present themselves as me, I suspect the ol' Bill would be along shortly after.

All those eligible to vote are on the list and each entry can only vote once
 
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